Ken Burns' "The Vietnam War" (2 Viewers)

[BLReed]

Agreed. I thought that the series was "cherry picked". Sad, because I really like Burns' "The Civil War", and respected his research and production of that series. This, however was simply an attempt of justification for the Democrats mishandling the entire war, and it's post-war aftermath.

And they are still at it. North is correct in so many ways.

 

[bromhead]

What a difference In Natl geographics Viet war History,,Pro U S Military and all the victories we won,tet etc,,Those who served ,vs burns version

 

[nysoldiers]

Based on some private messages and re-reading of my post I want to clarify my comments. The vast majority of American soldiers in Vietnam did not commit atrocities and we know that the VC were brutal to both our soldiers and their own civilians. I was told that of the Americans that did commit war crimes many were driven to revenge by the gruesome acts of the enemy.
This does not excuse what our government and some military leaders did to the Vietnamese populace e.g.. Napalm, Agent Orange, mass bombings, burning villages and supporting a corrupt South Vietnamese government.
My main point is that governments make mistakes and commit crimes and citizens who protest and question their governments are not dishonorable.
We should teach the facts, even if hurtful or embarrassing, so we can learn from them.
To those who served in Vietnam and did the right thing I honor them.

 

[bromhead]

Based on some private messages and re-reading of my post I want to clarify my comments. The vast majority of American soldiers in Vietnam did not commit atrocities and we know that the VC were brutal to both our soldiers and their own civilians. I was told that of the Americans that did commit war crimes many were driven to revenge by the gruesome acts of the enemy.
This does not excuse what our government and some military leaders did to the Vietnamese populace e.g.. Napalm, Agent Orange, mass bombings, burning villages and supporting a corrupt South Vietnamese government.
My main point is that governments make mistakes and commit crimes and citizens who protest and question their governments are not dishonorable.
We should teach the facts, even if hurtful or embarrassing, so we can learn from them.
To those who served in Vietnam and did the right thing I honor them.

Naplam In WW2 ,,Korea and definatly Vietnam used against enemy forces in almost every occasion was a godsend for American forces,,politics of a weapon are easy to mention when you aren't in danger of being overrun and an airstrike is the only way out,.,.I imagine my Father ,,48 missuions ,B17 WW2 would now be accused of being a "Mass bomber" of the Reich,,or as herr Goebbles said "The American air pirates",,

 

[gk5717]

I don't think his mention of the use of naplam against enemy forces was considered wrong. I think he was speaking in general terms that Vietnamese civilians were on occasion brutalized. And yes by both sides. I truely believe this adage. In combat you are not fighting for your country but for your buddies and the soldiers around you.
In one interview during Burns film this Marine said "We never abused pow's, but to be a pow you had to get to the rear". Right or wrong I completely understand what he was saying and yes I agree with him. Someone is trying to kill you, you see friends killed it is only human nature that you will seek revenge.
The one thing I took from the Burns film that I didn't really know was that militarily we kicked their ***** almost all the time. But their sheer will and persistance was what won the war for them.
It's easy 50 plus years later and look back and say this war was wrong, and it was. But the mindset during that time period was that communism was trying to take over the world and that it had to be stopped.
I had a huge stake in the Vietnam war. I was in the Army Reserves from 1965 -71. And no I had zero connections. Joined on my own when I got my draft classification 1-A. Why we were never activated is beyond me. One of the happiest days of my life was when in March of 1968 LBJ announced the halt of the bombing and that he would not run for reelection. Just my take.
Gary

 

[nysoldiers]

Naplam In WW2 ,,Korea and definatly Vietnam used against enemy forces in almost every occasion was a godsend for American forces,,politics of a weapon are easy to mention when you aren't in danger of being overrun and an airstrike is the only way out,.,.I imagine my Father ,,48 missuions ,B17 WW2 would now be accused of being a "Mass bomber" of the Reich,,or as herr Goebbles said "The American air pirates",,

My father was also in the Army Airforce, flying P40's in the North Africa and Italy Theaters. I never blamed the soldiers or pilots for the decisions to bomb or napalm, they were following orders and believed in the war effort. I don't think you can compare WWII to Vietnam. In WWII Germany and Japan attacked us first and were out for world domination we had no choice but to fight an all out war with these enemies. I would argue that Vietnam was more of a "civil war" and certainly localized to Southeast Asia. I understand that some believed in the "Domino theory" and wanted to stop Communism before it reached our shores. But we knew early on that it was an un-winnable war (Johnson said so on tape) and we kept it going to "save face" among other misguided reasons.
And of course the end result was that within a few weeks after we left the South fell apart and capitulated to the North Vietnamese.

 

[bromhead]

My father was also in the Army Airforce, flying P40's in the North Africa and Italy Theaters. I never blamed the soldiers or pilots for the decisions to bomb or napalm, they were following orders and believed in the war effort. I don't think you can compare WWII to Vietnam. In WWII Germany and Japan attacked us first and were out for world domination we had no choice but to fight an all out war with these enemies. I would argue that Vietnam was more of a "civil war" and certainly localized to Southeast Asia. I understand that some believed in the "Domino theory" and wanted to stop Communism before it reached our shores. But we knew early on that it was an un-winnable war (Johnson said so on tape) and we kept it going to "save face" among other misguided reasons.
And of course the end result was that within a few weeks after we left the South fell apart and capitulated to the North Vietnamese.

The term "mass bombing" brought up, certainly applies more to ww2 then viet,,,but then again politics seem to rule here just as everything else these days,,the south actually fell apart in 1975,,we left a few years before that,,,the reason the reserves,98% had a ticket out of the war was political obviously,,Airforce reserve and some others were there,,I personally never saw a live or dead natl guard ,,reservist in country,,except for the corporation I began working for where it seemed every one of my fellow workers was a guard or reserve member,,but then my experience,,thoughts seem to run counter to the Burns version and the followers as always,,so no sense fighting the tide,,thats all folks

 

[jazzeum]

A review by Frances FitzGerald, who wrote one of the must read books about Vietnam, “Fire in the Lake.”

The Pity of it All

 

[nysoldiers]

A review by Frances FitzGerald, who wrote one of the must read books about Vietnam, “Fire in the Lake.”

The Pity of it All

I think this review is on the mark but some people will never accept the facts. The end result is that many Americans and Vietnamese lost their lives for a war that could have been avoided or ended much sooner.

 

[Arnhemjim]

I think this review is on the mark but some people will never accept the facts. The end result is that many Americans and Vietnamese lost their lives for a war that could have been avoided or ended much sooner.

Find it extremely curious that neither in the television presentation, or the book, that Ken Burns completely omits mention of the SEATO (South East Asia Treaty Organization) Treaty and Accords, which specifically obligated signatories to come to the defense of other signatories who were attacked. Just a "minor inconvenient truth".
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

 

[jazzeum]

While the documentary had many flaws, not mentioning SEATO hardly seems to be one of them. Moreover, South Vietnam was not a member signatory when it was formed in 1954, so its omission from the documentary is not that significant.

 

[BLReed]

While the documentary had many flaws, not mentioning SEATO hardly seems to be one of them. Moreover, South Vietnam was not a member signatory when it was formed in 1954, so its omission from the documentary is not that significant.

Your Google needs fixed.
"Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos were prevented from taking part in any international military alliance as a result of the Geneva Agreements signed 20 July of the same year concluding the end of the First Indochina War. However, with the lingering threat coming from communist North Vietnam and the possibility of the domino theory with Indochina turning into a communist frontier, SEATO got these countries under its protection – an act that would be considered to be one of the main justifications for the U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War."

 

[Arnhemjim]

While the documentary had many flaws, not mentioning SEATO hardly seems to be one of them. Moreover, South Vietnam was not a member signatory when it was formed in 1954, so its omission from the documentary is not that significant.

Am not certain where Hermano Bebe Que La Vida es Breve is geographically located, however duly impressed by your obviously frequent and protracted participation in the forum. Would suggest however that my comment about the SEATO Treaty reflects IMO only the tip of the iceberg in Burn's agenda and attempt to spin and rewrite history. Unfortunately the pdf file I have, delineating an episode by episode evaluation of the the series, can't be uploaded on this forum due to memory size limitations. With you kind indulgence will try to segment the document written by COL Joe Abodeely,USA(Rtd), 1st Air Cavalry Div., Jan 1968 - Jan 1969, or as an alternative provide a URL containing same.
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory.

 

[jazzeum]

Your Google needs fixed.
"Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos were prevented from taking part in any international military alliance as a result of the Geneva Agreements signed 20 July of the same year concluding the end of the First Indochina War. However, with the lingering threat coming from communist North Vietnam and the possibility of the domino theory with Indochina turning into a communist frontier, SEATO got these countries under its protection – an act that would be considered to be one of the main justifications for the U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War."

They had Laos and South Vietnam under its protection but who was the aggressor here? The US and South Vietnam prevented free elections from being held as required by the Geneva Agreements. So, the original fault lies with the US, not North Vietnam. The blame goes back to 1945 when the US chose to side with a colonialist power.

We could argue about this infinitum but the original point was that not mentioning SEATO was a flaw in the program. If so, a relatively minor one. As had been discussed, also ad infinitum, the program had other problems. Not mentioning SEATO is insignificant.

 

[jazzeum]

Am not certain where Hermano Bebe Que La Vida es Breve is geographically located, however duly impressed by your obviously frequent and protracted participation in the forum. Would suggest however that my comment about the SEATO Treaty reflects IMO only the tip of the iceberg in Burn's agenda and attempt to spin and rewrite history. Unfortunately the pdf file I have, delineating an episode by episode evaluation of the the series, can't be uploaded on this forum due to memory size limitations. With you kind indulgence will try to segment the document written by COL Joe Abodeely,USA(Rtd), 1st Air Cavalry Div., Jan 1968 - Jan 1969, or as an alternative provide a URL containing same.
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory.

I suppose you’re referring to something like this, http://www.war-stories.com/pdf/svn-joe-abodeely-the-truth-about-vietnam-2012.pdf

If so, there are two schools of thought on this, as you probably know. Too many lives were lost in this foolhardy venture and I’m glad it ended when it did.