Last stand on the Monongahela (1 Viewer)

[Johnboy]

I've started this book as well. Very well written but that particular quote worries me a bit. It implies Braddock's situation was hopeless. If it was hopeless, it was primarily because he lost control of the situation. Contrast this disaster with the situation facing Bouquet at Bushy Run where his troops did not flee in disorder under similar circumstances. Instead they held their ground and managed to rout the Indians. Comparing Braddock to Frederick the Great sounds like something only a true anglophile could come up with.

Well....... Easier said than done! Standing your ground against an Indian (Native American) ambush was a lesson that still hadn't been learned over a hundred years later (and hardly a Brit in sight) i.e. Fetterman route,Custer at LBH,Perry at White Bird Canyon......to name but a few. All defeats due to ambush or the inability to hold your ground leading to panic and defeat (during all these encounters, certain individuals performed heroically, but couldn't stem the tide)

 

[Combat]

Well....... Easier said than done! Standing your ground against an Indian (Native American) ambush was a lesson that still hadn't been learned over a hundred years later (and hardly a Brit in sight) i.e. Fetterman route,Custer at LBH,Perry at White Bird Canyon......to name but a few. All defeats due to ambush or the inability to hold your ground leading to panic and defeat (during all these encounters, certain individuals performed heroically, but couldn't stem the tide)

The Brits outnumbered their opponents at Monongahela. It was the reverse of Custer's situation where he was greatly outnumbered. Bushy Run is a more analogous situation in 1763 when Bouquet's column was ambushed in the woods. With an entirely different outcome because he was able to maintain control over his forces and not allow panic and disorder. I think that is a good example of how better leadership could have influenced the outcome at Monongahela and as a result the situation was certainly far from hopeless as the quote implies. If anything it was the French and Indians who had long odds in taking the risk to attack a larger force.

 

[Johnboy]

The Brits outnumbered their opponents at Monongahela. It was the reverse of Custer's situation where he was greatly outnumbered. Bushy Run is a more analogous situation in 1763 when Bouquet's column was ambushed in the woods. With an entirely different outcome because he was able to maintain control over his forces and not allow panic and disorder. I think that is a good example of how better leadership could have influenced the outcome at Monongahela and as a result the situation was certainly far from hopeless as the quote implies. If anything it was the French and Indians who had long odds in taking the risk to attack a larger force.

OK....Can't dispute that. However, Native Americans were master's of their environment and always tried to achieve local superiority even when actually outnumbered i.e. At the battle of Rosebud on 17th June 1876, both sides were more or less equal in numbers ,but the army column was spread along hilly terrain and elements were out of site of supporting troops. Indian leaders recognised this and fell on several isolated troops of the 3rd cavalry (a battle within a battle) with the soldiers being completely outnumbered and facing defeat in detail but luckily escaped Custer's fate on that occassion! Replace the hills with woods and you have the same kind of battle that Braddock faced. Also of importance is the big "M" morale, at Monongahela the 44th and 48th had only been in America for a short while and were recently brought up to strength by new recruits ,add to this the unfamiliar terrain and you have trouble as a commander and numerical superiority doesn't mean much. At Bushy Run the detachments of the 42nd,60th, and 77th were seasoned troops with many engagements to their credit, and despite suffering illness from their previous posting they rallied as highly motivated soldiers usually do. To the credit of the 44/48th their Grenadier companies initially put on a brave front causing immediate casualties to the French/Indians, but.............

 

[lancer]

I have ordered this book but have not received it yet. It is coming in a large order I placed with my military book club. Glad to hear it's a good one. -- Al

Braddock's Defeat arrived today and glancing through it, it appears to be well researched and very detailed. The maps are good, as well. -- Al