Marlborough (1 Viewer)

[Oldboy]

I was tickled to add these three Marlborough Grenadier Company figures recently-Amazed really that they exist and I'm just now discovering it The Seller (Splendid & Reputable man thet he is) listed them as part of a Set for circa 1750-I am very slightly dubious-but love them whatever.

and one more without fiddling with the exposure...

John

 

[aujj65]

John.

Very charming and nicely finished whoever made them.

Jeff

 

[theBaron]

Hi, John,

Did he mean "Marlborough", the manufacturer, or as in "the Duke of"? They look very much like castings from Russell Gammage's Rose line, which included a series of British infantry from the Duke's army (War of the Spanish Succession, if I'm not mistaken).

John Eden currently owns the molds for much of the Rose line, and you can see some of them here:

http://www.johnedenstudios.com/page26.htm

http://www.johnedenstudios.com/page27.htm

I agree with Jeff, whatever their origin, they're nice figures.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Oldboy]

Hi Guys, I have a great deal of confidence in this particular Seller,his weekly Saturday & Sunday listings have been a source of serial enjoyment & education for me for several years now.
As to the Brad's question,he did mean the Manufacturer & I just checked & attempted to photograph the bottoms of the bases the batteries are NOW in the charger....On one figure I can make out 2 "M"s on another 3 and on the third "M.M.M." & "U.K."-photographic evidence to follow eventually.
I know I was a bit surprised by the Manufacturer issue as I would expect sturdier,perhaps chunkier figures with less fine detail - there were two others offered;a Gren. loading, & a Mitred Gren. pointing-sadly I was snoozing and lost them and was just lucky the other bidder didn't want the Officer
I DO wish I could simply name the Seller,but he's likely correct about the Date as well,the coats suggest Marlburian (the Duke) or perhaps as late as "The '15 " to me ,but I am in no wise an authority
John
Those Rose figures ARE nice & would likely go well with those of a certain other British Manufacturer I'm slavishly devoted to...

 

[aujj65]

Hi Guys, I have a great deal of confidence in this particular Seller,his weekly Saturday & Sunday listings have been a source of serial enjoyment & education for me for several years now.
As to the Brad's question,he did mean the Manufacturer & I just checked & attempted to photograph the bottoms of the bases the batteries are NOW in the charger....On one figure I can make out 2 "M"s on another 3 and on the third "M.M.M." & "U.K."-photographic evidence to follow eventually.
I know I was a bit surprised by the Manufacturer issue as I would expect sturdier,perhaps chunkier figures with less fine detail - there were two others offered;a Gren. loading, & a Mitred Gren. pointing-sadly I was snoozing and lost them and was just lucky the other bidder didn't want the Officer
I DO wish I could simply name the Seller,but he's likely correct about the Date as well,the coats suggest Marlburian (the Duke) or perhaps as late as "The '15 " to me ,but I am in no wise an authority
John
Those Rose figures ARE nice & would likely go well with those of a certain other British Manufacturer I'm slavishly devoted to...

........who's that then??

Jeff

P.S. I will make sure that the battery in my camera is fully charged for the London show on the 27th.

 

[theBaron]

Hi, John,

Based on your info about the mark, I agree, and so I think you have a match for maker and period, too

I have to check some of the figures that I have, they're British infantry circa 1740, or maybe as late as the Seven Years War, but I think they have the same mark. I didn't know that that was Marlborough's mark, so I'll have to doublecheck. They're very similar to the figures the Irish Toy Soldier Museum paints up as the 18th Regiment of Foot; if I'm not mistaken, those are Tabony sculpts, also used by the more famous Tommy Atkins, aren't they? (Or is that infamous? That's better than famous--any "Three Amigos" fans out there?)

Prost!
Brad

 

[1879fanatic]

John,
A fine interlude in my day to check out your figures! Very nice figures, though I doubt very much that they are Marlborough. I have a bunch and NONE look like these beauties...And MMM usually (to me) indicates Mountford.
Mike

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi There,

Since I have a rather large number of Marlborough sets and figures I have to say they arent Marlborough but would agree with Mike that they are likely Mountford. They are quite nice.

Dave

 

[Oldboy]

MOUNTFORD !!?! Now that sounds credible ,Thanks Mike an Dave
(Sa-ay aren chew wanuh them thar moddy rater fellers ?)
Mountford well well -very well could be..I'll buy it for now-this has proved such a rollercoaster-We may have to have sworn affadavits
Although I like the sound of Mountford-it's too early to seek to change the Thread Header
Here's the bases

Hey Amigo Brad, howzabout some pics of yourn ?

 

[theBaron]

Hi, John, I'll take some pictures and post them. In the meantime, I did check them last night, the mark is for Martin Tabony, I'm pretty sure, though the mark appears backwards. It's the copyright symbol, followed by TM.

 

[1879fanatic]

Guys,
They are not Mountford for sure, I mentioned that as for MMM... but I believe Brad has the answer we're looking for. I think that the period is Marlborough, not manufacturer, since Marlborough did not make this period, and they're much chunkier with bases molded, not pegged afterwards.
Mike

 

[Oldboy]

Guys,
They are not Mountford for sure, I mentioned that as for MMM... but I believe Brad has the answer we're looking for. I think that the period is Marlborough, not manufacturer, since Marlborough did not make this period, and they're much chunkier with bases molded, not pegged afterwards.
Mike

Mike,My impression is that they're British made,over 20 years old and perhaps atypical of whomever's reputed manufacture-although I've nothing else to add,I am enjoying the sleuthing John
P.S.(Officer listing...eBay # 360158959232 -regret inability to post direct link )

 

[theBaron]

I'll re-assert my original opinion, then, they look very much like Rose Miniatures. Gammage did use thin flat bases, as well as the more familiar thick bases with the corners lopped off.

I'll have to take a look at the auction on eBay tonight.

 

[1879fanatic]

Brad,
I for one respect your KSA's on the English 80's-90's castings market, and will await the unveiling of the true manufacturer!
Mike

 

[theBaron]

OK, I checked out the auction, but I see that it ended back on the 6th...

The picture link in the auction page is now dead.

I've bought from that dealer before, and I think he's a good one. Often he has Stadden castings, I've gotten some of the ones you see in some of my threads, from him.

I just went to my primary hardcopy resources, my editions of Richard O'Brien's "Collecting Toy Soldiers". I was astonished to find no mention of Marlborough in any of the editions, whether in the 4th, "Collecting Foreign-Made Toy Soldiers", or in the Newer Maker section of the first 2 editions. There's also no mention in the 3rd edition, "Collecting American-Made Toy Soldiers", but then, it's about American-made toy soldiers.

I next went to Bruun's "Toy Soldiers Indentification and Price Guide", and there I found an article on Marlborough. And it's clear now why they didn't make it into O'Brien's book. When he published, Frank and Jan Scroby, who ran Marlborough, were still busy trading as Blenheim. Bruun notes that the Scrobys produced figures from the Victorian era, both from Great Britain and from the Empire, featuring the Durbar sets, as you are probably all aware. He also includes a picture of a set called "Early American Heroes". There's no mention of the British army from the early 18th century.

We do all know and agree that Marlborough figures were marked "MMM", for "Marlborough Military Models", and if these figures have that mark, it weighs very heavily for having been produced by the Scrobys. But I still wonder if their origin, either as masters, or as castings, lies with Gammage, because of their similarity to the Rose figures.

Either way, they are very nice figures and a coup for your collection, John!

I'm not giving up, but I think this may take some more research. And yes, I still need to take pictures of my Tabony figures and put them up, for comparison

Prost!
Brad

 

[theBaron]

Brad,
I for one respect your KSA's on the English 80's-90's castings market, and will await the unveiling of the true manufacturer!
Mike

Thanks very much for the vote of confidence, Mike!

 

[theBaron]

OK, I had a chance to take some pics of the two figures I was talking about, and I'll post them here:

From the back:

and a shot of the undersides of the bases, with the mark:

You can see what I mean about the mark. It appears to have the copyright symbol at the left, followed by "TM". I may be wrong about them being Tabony sculpts, though.

And here is a shot of them, flanked by two figures I know to be sculpted by Martin Tabony, two grenadiers of the 18th Foot (Royal Irish), painted and sold by the Irish Toy Soldier Museum:

The grenadier firing looks an awful lot like the one in Tradition's current line of the British Army in the Seven Years War, too. The pose is almost identical, see the figure in the middle of this pic:

But the other one is in a pose I have seen before in any lines, with his musket slung. And I suspect that these aren't factory-painted, but were painted by a collector.

John, I think Im hijacking your thread! I'm thinking of putting these in a new thread, either under Tommy Atkins, or in the Other Manufacturer forum, because I don't want to digress too far from the topic of this thread. But I wanted to show you all what I was talking about.

I think the provenance of the auction figures is still not quite solved. Does anyone have any Marlborough figures, that he could put up some pictures and we could all compare?

Prost!
Brad

 

[Tebear98]

Marlborough figures normally had "MM" on the bottom of the bases and their figures were always painted in gloss paint.

Gary

 

[JOHN EDEN STUDIOS]

Hello
You all seem to be getting no where with this one.
The figures you refer to are made by me JOHN EDEN STUDIOS
I also own all the master figures made by Russell Gammage of Rose Miniatures and these are part of his Marlburian period figures

The MMM bases are the early bases I used to use when I had just got rid of Marlborough Military Models and had not re designed my new bases

I hope this clears things up for you all

The Rose figures are far nicer and more detailed than the Marlborough Military Models figures.

regards, john eden

 

[theBaron]

Hello
You all seem to be getting no where with this one.
The figures you refer to are made by me JOHN EDEN STUDIOS
I also own all the master figures made by Russell Gammage of Rose Miniatures and these are part of his Marlburian period figures

The MMM bases are the early bases I used to use when I had just got rid of Marlborough Military Models and had not re designed my new bases

I hope this clears things up for you all

The Rose figures are far nicer and more detailed than the Marlborough Military Models figures.

regards, john eden

Thanks, John! I suspected they were Rose figures. I have the catalog, and I think I also included links to the pages are your site. I couldn't explain the bases, but now we know the story.

I'm posting a new thread with another mystery for our Baker Street Irregulars to try to solve, a recent eBay find I made...