Metal tanks ? (1 Viewer)

Do you want your armour made die-cast ?

  • Yep Want my armour die-cast

    Votes: 10 50.0%

  • No think it great how it is

    Votes: 10 50.0%
  • Total voters
    20
uksubs

uksubs

Lieutenant Colonel
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
7,050
With the price of King & Country King tiger being over £200.00 do you think it time there armour should be made in metal / part plastic :confused:
For me it would be the dog bollocks in metal :D
 
I think die cast armour would look very nice if done right, but the cost for such an item would be very expensive.

I believe that manufacturers are doing everything possible to maintain high quality at the best possible price.
 
Deitz said:
I think die cast armour would look very nice if done right, but the cost for such an item would be very expensive.

I believe that manufacturers are doing everything possible to maintain high quality at the best possible price.
Click to expand...

I agree with you Deitz.

FOV is great and that's how I started but the up front investment to product die-cast is well over $100K and requires mass distribution to retail outlets. Hey, last I looked there aren't enough of us 1/30 or even 1/32 scale "metal" toy soldiers collectors to justify this kind of investment. If there were, then it be would great to pick up a die-cast truck or armor at $40-60$ a piece as a collector from KC, Figarti, CS and even HB. $40-60? Oh yeah, die-cast makers costs are going up too! BTW, anyone know what happened to 21st Century? Are they still in business and what about FOV; have the actually produced anything new this year yet?

Until then it appears to be "status-quo" until someone or manufacturer can break this code IMO.

Carlos
 
desk11desk12 said:
...BTW, anyone know what happened to 21st Century? Are they still in business and what about FOV; have the actually produced anything new this year yet?...
Click to expand...

Hi, Carlos, there have been a couple of discussions recently in various threads, about how 21st Century is doing. I don't think anyone knows for sure. It has been noted that they appear to be laying off staff (which info was attributed to a post on another Web forum), but it's also been noted that they've announced new releases, such as aircraft, and armor (for example, their website has such updates). Add to those bits of info, we've all seen how WalMart dropped 21st Century from its toy lines, and again, no one is sure why (poor sales, perhaps? all we can really do is speculate). Upshot appears to be, we don't know for sure.

I always thought that 21st Century provided a product that served as a great entry into the hobby. From the 1/18th aircraft, to the very reasonably priced 1/32 armor, I've always said that if I had kids, I'd give them those things, as toys, and let them play with them. That's a good way to get the next generation interested in modeling, and collecting, and history, letting them touch and play with and yes, even blow them up with firecrackers. If a kid gets his hands on a toy, he'll remember it when he's an adult, and even spend far more money at that point than it cost when he was young.

I think 21st Century might now be sold at Target, but I haven't checked for myself.

Prost!
Brad
 
theBaron said:
Hi, Carlos, there have been a couple of discussions recently in various threads, about how 21st Century is doing. I don't think anyone knows for sure. It has been noted that they appear to be laying off staff (which info was attributed to a post on another Web forum), but it's also been noted that they've announced new releases, such as aircraft, and armor (for example, their website has such updates). Add to those bits of info, we've all seen how WalMart dropped 21st Century from its toy lines, and again, no one is sure why (poor sales, perhaps? all we can really do is speculate). Upshot appears to be, we don't know for sure.

I always thought that 21st Century provided a product that served as a great entry into the hobby. From the 1/18th aircraft, to the very reasonably priced 1/32 armor, I've always said that if I had kids, I'd give them those things, as toys, and let them play with them. That's a good way to get the next generation interested in modeling, and collecting, and history, letting them touch and play with and yes, even blow them up with firecrackers. If a kid gets his hands on a toy, he'll remember it when he's an adult, and even spend far more money at that point than it cost when he was young.

I think 21st Century might now be sold at Target, but I haven't checked for myself.

Prost!
Brad
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Thank you Brad for the update. It would be a shamed if this company died.

Carlos
 
Deitz said:
I think die cast armour would look very nice if done right, but the cost for such an item would be very expensive.

I believe that manufacturers are doing everything possible to maintain high quality at the best possible price.
Click to expand...

FOV 1/16 Tiger tank die -cast & that cost only £200.00 :eek:
 
uksubs said:
With the price of King & Country King tiger being over £200.00 do you think it time there armour should be made in metal / part plastic :confused:
For me it would be the dog bollocks in metal :D
Click to expand...

Yo Troopers, dont you think us UK guys, have a great knowledge of the English Language its second to none LMAO.
Bernard. :D

I have $400.00 dollars ready for a Centurion Tank, if anyone has got the bottle to make one in metal that is, imagine the QOH riding around in plastic Tanks lol.
Bernard.
 
Sorry to be the nay-sayer at the party but I voted NO quite emphatically!

One of my joys is to take 21C and FoV and redetail them or least take out their gross inaccuraccies, I am used to working with plastic and resin - I HATE DIECAST!!!! It is hard to grind (it clogs up Dremel heads), it dulls drill bits, it generally doesn't take detail as sharply and distinctly as plastic, it creates metal filings and shavings all over the place, etc. NO MORE DIECASTS!!!!! I was ever so glad when 21C released their M7 Priest in both metal and plastic bodied versions - I still have a metal M7 to get rid of. Neither FoV or 21C can get the classic Sherman tank right so there's a lot of carving and grinding to get them corrected. This process is indescribably easier with plastic bodies.

Leave the metal out of my tanks except for stuff like gun barrels!

One exception - if you are talking about a nice high-end metal model like Honour Bound then deal me in. That's a whole different world than mass-production diecast. Those were/are gorgeous tributes to the model builders' art.

If you want weight in your tanks but some rocks in the bottom of the hull. For mass production make 'em plastic or resin. Or donate me a Unimat multi-function machining tool!

Gary
 
binder001 said:
Sorry to be the nay-sayer at the party but I voted NO quite emphatically!

One of my joys is to take 21C and FoV and redetail them or least take out their gross inaccuraccies, I am used to working with plastic and resin - I HATE DIECAST!!!! It is hard to grind (it clogs up Dremel heads), it dulls drill bits, it generally doesn't take detail as sharply and distinctly as plastic, it creates metal filings and shavings all over the place, etc. NO MORE DIECASTS!!!!! I was ever so glad when 21C released their M7 Priest in both metal and plastic bodied versions - I still have a metal M7 to get rid of. Neither FoV or 21C can get the classic Sherman tank right so there's a lot of carving and grinding to get them corrected. This process is indescribably easier with plastic bodies.

Leave the metal out of my tanks except for stuff like gun barrels!

One exception - if you are talking about a nice high-end metal model like Honour Bound then deal me in. That's a whole different world than mass-production diecast. Those were/are gorgeous tributes to the model builders' art.

If you want weight in your tanks but some rocks in the bottom of the hull. For mass production make 'em plastic or resin. Or donate me a Unimat multi-function machining tool!

Gary
Click to expand...

Hi Gary
My post is aimed at the high end market
 
uksubs said:
Hi Gary
My post is aimed at the high end market
Click to expand...

It can't happen in the high end market in this hobby (1:30 or 1:32 scale) as the manufacturer would either have to be able to sell around 50,000 of the vehicle or charge an obscenely high price for it, to defray the cost of the die cast molds. There simply are not enough toy soldier collectors to make die cast vehicles feasable.
 
Louis Badolato said:
It can't happen in the high end market in this hobby (1:30 or 1:32 scale) as the manufacturer would either have to be able to sell around 50,000 of the vehicle or charge an obscenely high price for it, to defray the cost of the die cast molds. There simply are not enough toy soldier collectors to make die cast vehicles feasable.
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Not so sure about that, a friend of mine had a tractor commisioned in 1:16 scale and he was selling them for £59.95. He had 1500 of them made. Britains also commisioned a tractor for our forum (1000 pieces) and we sold them for £19.95. It can be done just have to find the right source. :)
 
thebritfarmer said:
Not so sure about that, a friend of mine had a tractor commisioned in 1:16 scale and he was selling them for £59.95. He had 1500 of them made. Britains also commisioned a tractor for our forum (1000 pieces) and we sold them for £19.95. It can be done just have to find the right source. :)
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Please forward your source to Andy at K&C and Ana at Honour Bound . . . sounds like the information Andy gave me might not be accurate, and this might be a way for Ana to bring back vehicle production.
 
It is interesting when you get information from "across hobbies" about how one area can get limited run or scarce items made while another hobby follows "traditional" paths.

In tank modeling the most common way to get limited run items is via resin casting. This is done by individuals looking to make a series of parts as well as small companies. These parts can range from figure accessories to complete tank transporters.

In model trains there was (and is) a tradition of the model locomotive that is assembled by hand from brass parts. These are limited run collectors' items and get quite expensive. Interestingly, the resin models had not caught on as big in model trains as in static military modeling. A number of model train parts are still made as white metal castings. Current plastic molding has made injection molding more attractive and many parts or accessories are plastic. Currently there is a company that produces complete HO locomotives with sound that are based on specific real locomtives. I don't know the production runs, but I can't see too many thousands of us buying UP 2-10-2's but the assembled, sound-equipped models are at MSRP of $450, but I'm getting mine at significantly less than that. I'm just pointing out that some items can be done in "limited" quantities.

Limited run diecast used to be a viable market, but I think we are still looking at production in the thousands.

Perhaps the answer is to look at all kinds of construction methods and even apply "composite" construction - for instance a 1/30th King Tiger with resin body and turret, diecast roadwheels/tracks and lost wax brass castings for MGs with "pewter" figures. I tore apart a K&C M10 for repainting and was surprised to see several media used in its construction. We still come down to finding a cheap labor source to put them all together. Honour Bound made a fine product but the labor for assembly and the local economy drove them out of the market.

Gary
 
It is interesting to see the different perspectives on this. I recall seeing but cannot recall the name of an amazingly detailed Tiger with acturate and viewable internal detail. Does anyone know of that one; it seemed to define the art for model tanks?
 
I think the subject matter would have to be chosen carefully to get the most out of the mould.

For example I have 3 tractors New Holland, Steyr and Case. They all have the same chassis, the only thing changed were the hood and the top of the roof. These a just injection molded plastic and certainly chepaer than doing a new chassis for each model.

I also noticed that you guys all buy different versions of the same tank etc.... so would this not help to offset the cost?
 
Spitfrnd said:
It is interesting to see the different perspectives on this. I recall seeing but cannot recall the name of an amazingly detailed Tiger with acturate and viewable internal detail. Does anyone know of that one; it seemed to define the art for model tanks?
Click to expand...

That was the Figarti "Shock and Awe" Tiger - it was made of more than 900 parts!
 
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