My £10 Mystery Box (1 Viewer)

[johnnybach]

I thought that I would show you "My £10 Box". I only wish now, that I had taken a "before" picture - as well as the "After" one - shown above. Let me explain.

I was out with "The Commandante" in the UK about a year ago, when we came across a market stall full of bric-a-brac. I noticed a small cardboard box - with what turned out to be 27 toy soldiers, jumbled together, in various stages of dis-repair and looking rather sad. Idly flicking through them, I quietly enquired how much they cost. "Well", the geezer said briskly, " I've had them knocking around for long enough - they wuz a pound a go - but you can have the box for a tenner"

Reaching for my wallet, I noticed that it only contained Euros - as we had only recently arrived in the UK. The Commandante saw the gleam in my eye - and very fortunately came to the rescue with the asking price ( in my hurry to conclude the purchase, I forgot my golden rule of barter - and didn't offer him half!).

The contents turned out to be as follows.

6 Delprado Afrika Corps W.O. figures
5 Delprado Army Commando Sergeants
1 DlpradoRoyal Marine 1795
1 Delprado Prussian Officer 1806
1 Delprado French Crusader, 1291
King Henry VIII - Madame Tussaude's souvenir figurine (Britains T-1 figure)
3 Frontline Figures from their "Thin Red Line" range.
1 Johillco Piper (No.215P)
1 Britain's Deetail Irish Bass Drummer
3 Seaforth Highlander figures (unknown maker)
1 Britains Khaki Infantryman in peaked cap, Standing Firing (1933 set 1260)
1 Highland Officer (originally fitted with mace arm - a made up Britains re-cast)
1 Sailor with blunderbus ( base suggests a Stadden)
1 Gordon Highlander hollowcast figure (unmarked on base?)

Putting aside the Delprado figures - which were generally OK - but clearly "played with", most of the other figures had a mix of major or minor damage.

The three Sutherland Highlanders had all weapons snapped off and one had an arm missing - all had paintwork damage. These were repaired by me with arms weapons supplied from Dorset Soldiers - then re-touched.

The Johillco piper was structurally sound - but badly re-painted (on top of the original BAD paint-job!). He was re-painted by me to become a Seaforth.

The three mystery Highlanders had similar firearm problems (snapped off ) - so were replaced with Martini-Henry's - again from Dorset Soldiers.

The Highland Officer - originally held a mace - but I soon realised this had been forced on - and he was in fact a re-cast version of the Britain's Highland Officer from set 437 originally from around 1932-1940. He was restored and given a drawn sword and re-painted by me.

The Naval Seaman was cleaned up and re-touched by me - as some previous owner I suspect had used a three inch brush to re-paint him! I suspect he might be a Stadden toy figure (because of the base), so kept as much original paint as possible.

King Henry, Khakki Standing Firer and the Irish Bass drummer were just lightly cleaned - and unrestored.

Finally, the Delprado Brigade were touched up - just for fun - and me to play with.

I would like to know if anyone could identify the three "mystery" figures for me. The kneeling,firing Seaforth (original paint tartan) had a round base put on by me - as he was unsteady - due to a damaged rear foot (repaired with milliput). His Standing chum is clearly from the same maker - as is the other Standing Firing in Active Service dress. I would also like to know a bit more about the suspected Stadden sailor - and the Gordons Drummie.

I think " the geezer" gave me a good deal. How about you? - johnnybach

P.S I'm not going to tell you where - in case he turns up with another box!!

 

[johnnybach]

I Had a phone call last night - from a pal who had seen my photo. He thinks that the Drum Major figure is by Hill - from the Monarch series circa 1955. I confirmed that the staff on his Mace is definitely non-standard. It looks like that it was broken off at some time - and replaced with a piece of rod, wrapped in fine wire and repainted.

I've had a look in my copy of "British Toy Soldiers - 1893 to the Present" (1985) by James Opie, as my pal suggested - and there he is on page 39!

So - that's one figure identified - and I can now order a new staff and arm to replace the old repair. Any ideas about the others??

 

[thebritfarmer]

You certainly got a good deal that is for sure!!

I wonder if the highlanders could be K&C ?

 

[johnnybach]

Well - I think I did - as you mentioned before to me, King Henry ViIII is a rare Britains figure.
I simply don't know who made the three in question - but remind viewers that their Martini-Henry's are not original, but replacement parts by me. I thought that they might be Trophy - but don't really know.
Also the figure on the thin plate base intrigues me. I know Stadden toy soldiers had such bases - but it doesn't seem to be all that well made. Any Stadden experts out there that can help identify him? regards, johnnybach

 

[Lawrence Lo]

You certainly got a good deal that is for sure!!

I wonder if the highlanders could be K&C ?

Agree with thebritfarmer. Wonderful work restoring the figures and well worth the cost, though having the Commandante pay for it usually results in large interest costs
As for the highlanders, they do look like K&C. The color of the base on the figures threw me off as K&C's highlander's base were done in brown. Did you repaint the base on the standing highlander to green? If it was green to begin with, it may possibly be Frontline. Regardless, you have some nice figures and a gift for painting. Look forward to seeing more of your work. All the best, Lawrence

 

[DMNamiot]

I too agree with Lawrence and Scott I think those Highlanders are either K&C or Frontline. Great pick up for a boot sale!

Dave

 

[johnnybach]

Thanks to both of you for the input. I'm pretty certain that the bases on the standing figures were brown originally. They also seem quite "heavy" pieces (if that helps). So the consensus so far, seems to favour K&C. Well, that's a step forward. I'm also keen to find out more about the Sailor with cutlass and blunderbuss. He looks like he could have been a press-gang type - and the base just screams STADDEN - though I think he may just be stuck on an old base, We shall see, perhaps?

Now to "The Commandant"". I have to report that less than 100 yards away - there was a Sainsburys - with a cash-machine. Needless to say, the "loan" was re-paid in full - to be followed shortly later by a large chocolate eclair, in lieu of interest. I also paid little attention to the shopping, as I was far too busy rummaging in the box! By the time we reached the check-out, I was more than satisfied with my investment!!! I have seen "the geezer" several times since - but no more boxes have surfaced yet. I live in hope - 'cos it was great fun putting them back together.

Thanks for the positives about my painting - when you're self-taught it's always reassuring to think you're getting something right - at least.

Now my photography seems to be improving a bit - I will show you some more of my efforts from time to time - as long as you realise I'm a toy man - and not a pure military modeller. johnnybach

 

[4th Hussar]

I have to agree that the highlander figures look more like the KCs than the Frontlines I have in my cabinet. Is there a mark on the underside of the base.
On the sailor , Aylmer also used thin sheet metal bases .

 

[thebritfarmer]

These links may help johnny

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10862

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3582

 

[johnnybach]

Wow Scott - that's them! I still have what's left of their weapons and its definite. That's them! I read through the old thread (thank-you so much for that) - and learned about this rather special set. They are FABULOUS! I absolutely love them - and had no idea that K&C used to make them. Why on earth did they stop? They are just my cup of tea! Even down to the ones issued in Khaki - and to think, I nearly painted him red too!!!

So.. my £10 box has just turned up another super surprise.

Just to re-cap for a moment, the three Seaforth Highlanders were originally from a special Glossy boxed set from the 1980's by K&C. Mine are: One Standing at the ready/red jacket; One kneeling at the ready/ red jacket; and one Standing firing/Khaki jacket.I found them broken and damaged and restored them by adding different firearms and touching in paint - which I guess makes them unique!

WOWOWOW! They are drop dead gorgeous - and they're mine. What a lovely surprise

Thanks guys for your detective work that is SUCH a surprise. Thank you all - johnnybach

 

[johnnybach]

4th Hussar - Hi chum - Scott has led me to some pictures of the Seaforth Highlanders and confirmed that they are from a now rare K&C glossy set (before I replaced the broken weapons). So they are even rarer now!! There were no marks under the bases which were originally brown - but in my ignorance painted green ' cos I didn't have that shade of brown!

I Know zilch about Aylmer - but the material used for the base is a yellow metal - so could be brass (or 22carat gold? - only joking bach!). Again - no marks. There was a fragment of paper sticking to the underneath - and I know some Staddens had paper labels. Does any of that help? johnnybach

 

[hsm]

Your score is wonderful- I too have had a recent "score" .
i will explain.
There was an ad from a widow for someone to to please take her husbands beloved toy soldier collection away. it repeated for awhile so I contacted her. a good friend of her husband had come up already and "picked through" but there was still a 1/4 ton of stuff(litereally).

Well she lives quite some distance away, (east coast) I am in Toronto.
A chum was out there and he was coming home for Xmas so I asked him for a solid. no problem.

so I got a trunk full of castings, a melting pot, a pouring kit, molds home made and commercial, and literally over 1000 castings and figures. for free.
Well I am going to paint a bunch , and recyle a buncj as I learn to cast.

soon I will post pics of some of the pecualiar items/sets tha materialized. there is a lot of stuff! some are Britains, Johill,bulldog, tradition, ted toy,
mignot...etc etc. once I learn to properly post pics I will share.

wow! I have a lifetime of collecting toy soldiers here on top off my own-
but Like I said mush of what is left are 'recasts" for painting-but - some are hollowcast.... prepped for refurb?

Grant

 

[johnnybach]

Just be careful of what you put in the melting pot. As I have found out already - someone else's junk - may just be a little treasure.............

Also, if you have any old hollowcasts in there that you don't want.........................

Good luck with them .......I hope you have as much fun with them that I did. johnnybach

 

[theBaron]

Great find, Johnny! That's one of the best kinds of experience in our hobby, finding a stash unexpectedly and finding some nice pieces in it.

Regarding the sailor, I thought Stadden, too, from the shape of the base. But you say it's a brass color? I agree with the consensus, Stadden used tin sheeting for the bases, and I've never seen a brass or copper colored one for a Stadden figure. Though, it's just as easy for a collector to use a piece of copper sheet for a Stadden figure, or some other figure cast without a base. I use copper roof flashing sheet for bases for some of mine.

As far as Alymer goes, I have only ever seen brass sheet bases on Alymer figures, but they were round and stamped with "Alymer" and "Spain" underneath. That's not to say they didn't ever use a squared piece of sheet, thought.

Soldat also used metal sheeting for bases, but left them square, unlike Stadden. The corners on the Soldat bases can give you a little nick on the finger if you're not carefull. And they were tin, too.

As far as repainting old Staddens goes, personally, I don't like the factory paint, and unless it's in mint condition, I strip and repaint them. Usually, there's enough paint flaking to make it worthwhile. I like your results with the sailor.

Prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Brad. That was the first time anything like that has happened to me - and I hope it isn't the last. A very satisfying experience all round. As soon as I saw King Henry - I knew I was onto a winner - and even though many were broken, I could see that they were repairable - especially knowing Giles and his "Spares Department" as I do. And the enjoyment of rescuing them was enormous.

My own feeling about "The Sailor", is that some collector along the way, has tried to make up his own "Stadden". and tried to fake one by making the base so distinctive. The base IS yellow metal (all the books say tin), and quite rough on the edges. It has been cut with a tin-snips, I think - you can feel the burr on the edge. I've never handled a real Stadden toy - but can't believe it would be that rough.

I do have a 90mm pewter figurine in my collection by him - which is very well made - and so unlike Jack-tar. I have pushed it on my post, to see if anyone recognised the figure. I hoped someone would say " Ah yes that's old so-and-so made in 1932 etc.... The deafening silence leads me to believe it isn't what it's made out to be. The figure itself is quite rough - and was poorly repainted by someone. I tidied it up a bit - but not too much (just in case). I will keep him though, and maybe strip him completely and do a tidier job on him - to make him look at least half-decent.

Thanks anyway for casting an eye - and giving me the benefit of your advice, which, as with all on the forum, is very much appreciated by a comparative newcomer. Regards - johnnybach

 

[theBaron]

Good catch on that base. You're right, the tin bases on Stadden figures, and Lassets and Soldats, for that matter, have relatively clean edges. They may have been filed or otherwise ground smooth or cleaned up after cutting. I have a pair of aviation shears, and my cuts show marks from the teeth on the edges of the blades. Sometimes I will file them smooth.

For any large-scale figure that may come from Stadden, we'll have to look to Bernard (cardigan), he's got quite a collection now of the Stadden statuettes, and he's amassed quite the body of knowledge about the figures, and ones that are similar to them.

Prost!
Brad

 

[trooper]

Johnny, where did you post the 90mm figure? I don't recall seeing a photo. Maybe you could post it again? Trooper

 

[johnnybach]

Hi trooper, I haven't posted any picture of my 90mm Stadden - as he was not amongst my "Box" purchases. I haven't bothered to post any picture of him - as he is the polished pewter variety. He is quite a well known one - unpainted - on the raised polished base. He is marked on the base as "Grenadier Guards" but is actually the 1st Foot Guard in, mitre cap, in the act of throwing a grenade overarm (which apparently is wrong - they bunged 'em underarm). They, of course, only became The Grenadier Guards after 1815.

Here's my snaps - good practice!

I bought him from "the geezer" again - but in November. (Incidentally, I call him "the geezer" as he has an uncanny likeness to the spiv in "Dad's Army". He talks like him - and even looks over his shoulder before giving you a price. He thinks I'm smiling when dealing with him - but actually I'm trying desperately to stop from laughing!). He offered me the figure for a tenner - but this time I knocked him down to £7 - as his musket on his back was bent! Easily straightened - with a bit of TLC.

I don't actually collect them per-se - but for the price, I thought he would be a nice looking oddity in my cabinet. He does look good too - so I'm not going to dismount and /or paint him. ( I have seen that Obee does!!). I think these figures were intended as polished gifts (maybe to retiring Guardsmen?), so will keep him as intended. Regards, johnnybach

 

[aujj65]

Strange, but I have exactly the same figure in the corner of my cabinet. This was given to me by another forum member in thanks for all the painting I had done for him over the years but came sans musket. Never mind a very nice man who shall remain anonnymoose fitted a replacement one foc. There are some great people on this forum.

Jeff

Still not sure whether to paint him, if I do it will be in gloss!

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Jeff - I think this particular model is relatively common - though being mounted as they are - were never intended for painting. Why not look for another in kit form, to paint, and have one of each? Shame about the missing musket - but mine came bent - as were the sword and bayonet. You can see how easy they would be to get broken off.

nice thing though. jb