Mystery Of The Zulu Dawn (1 Viewer)

[Cardigan600]

Yo Troopers, watched a documentary tonight on why a bunch of savages beat one of the best Army's in the World. This is not my scene so wont go into the technical thing where the battle was etc. A group of scientist went to the battle area and what came out was amazing, the spoke to the Zulu decendents and they still do it today in mock battles, they all get high on magic mushrooms so they think they are superhumans, so they were up for the battle, even tried these mushrooms on Judo experts and it made them a lot more aggressive. Then they tested the rifles our lads used and found out that after 15/20 rounds fired the guns over heated and the carbon from the cartridge jammed the gun, plus the cartridges were very easy damaged just by handling them, so a lot of guys were without guns as the Zulus got closer, plus they found out the lines they were defending were a lot bigger than was documented, they where to far out from the main camp and instead of being shoulder to shoulder they were 7 yards apart to cover the ground, add this to guns jamming it left big holes in the line for the Zulus to pour through, end of battle. They said the British in theory had enough fire power to wipe out 20,000 Zulus in six minutes, before they got near the British lines. Just shows what they can come up with today, with a little detective work.
Bernard.

 

[Njja]

Then you have the same weapons, training and adversaries and a

completely different outcome at Rorkes Drift.

 

[1879fanatic]

Simple entrenchment my deer fellow. That's all those mealie sacks were good for! Plus a quarter of the numbers present on the Zulu side. Mike

 

[Njja]

Simple entrenchment my deer fellow. That's all those mealie sacks were good for! Plus a quarter of the numbers present on the Zulu side. Mike

Ah yes, a 1/4 of the Zulu force up against 1/10 of the British lads.......

And the British didn't have the same weapons which jammed after 15/20

shots......this group was equipted with the new Sig556 at 650rpm

 

[Deitz]

I believe the show is from the series Secerts of the Dead. I recorded off PBS a couple of years ago, I watched a couple of times then then tape busted.

I am not sure if it was on this show, but I saw a documentary, were the myth was put to rest that the British lost the battle because they were unable to open the ammo boxes, due to a lack of screw drivers. They demonstrated how they were able to open the ammo boxes very easily with the butts of their rifles.

I enjoy reading all the new books that are coming out on the Zulu war. I have a few that are waiting to be read, when I have the time.

 

[damian]

Yo Troopers, watched a documentary tonight on why a bunch of savages beat one of the best Army's in the World. This is not my scene so wont go into the technical thing where the battle was etc. A group of scientist went to the battle area and what came out was amazing, the spoke to the Zulu decendents and they still do it today in mock battles, they all get high on magic mushrooms so they think they are superhumans, so they were up for the battle, even tried these mushrooms on Judo experts and it made them a lot more aggressive. Then they tested the rifles our lads used and found out that after 15/20 rounds fired the guns over heated and the carbon from the cartridge jammed the gun, plus the cartridges were very easy damaged just by handling them, so a lot of guys were without guns as the Zulus got closer, plus they found out the lines they were defending were a lot bigger than was documented, they where to far out from the main camp and instead of being shoulder to shoulder they were 7 yards apart to cover the ground, add this to guns jamming it left big holes in the line for the Zulus to pour through, end of battle. They said the British in theory had enough fire power to wipe out 20,000 Zulus in six minutes, before they got near the British lines. Just shows what they can come up with today, with a little detective work.
Bernard.

I saw that show Bernard. Obvioulsy not made by anyone born or bred in South Africa. Zululand grows the best dagga (marijuana) in the world outside of Jamacia. I had a friend who ran a buildinging company. Most of the platerers were Zulu and they would always smoke some of it duirng tea. It is a great analgesic ( pain medicine) so if you have a bit of a stiff shoulder etc and you have to plaster a whole room it is great. So for a local discovering that some of teh concotions the inynagas brew up contain dagga is no surprise. Look up Durban poison or Swazi gold on the net for more info.
Regards
Damian

 

[trooper]

This particular documentary was flawed in several respects. First the jamming of the Martinis which was not a common event. at Rorke's Drift the weapons were fired until the barrels were so hot that the packing grease under them melted and ran over the shooter's hands so that they had to wrap rags around them. They were so hot that if there was a pause in the firing they had to be unloaded otherwise they could cook off a round, and yet with all that work no contemporary account mentions jamming. Also when demonstrating the effect of the Zulu weapons they used sun dried animal bones, much more brittle than fresh. The opinion that the 24th formed a widely spaced skirmish line was based on the finding of a couple of cartridge cases and the assumption that these had been fired by the defenders, all of the rifles were captured by the Zulus and it is quite likely that those odd items could have been discharged by them during the celebrations after the battle. In fairness the film did make some interesting points, clearing up the long standing myth of the ammo boxes and the effects of the hallucogenic drugs. Two books which should be read on this subject are "How can man die better" and "Like wolves on the fold" both by Mike Snook published by Greenhill Press.

 

[Njja]

You make excellent points. Most breech loading rifles will become difficult

to use when pushed beyond there limits. It would certainly seem that the

battle at Rokes Drift would have had as intense fire as the massacre at

Isandlwana. More then likely the control of fire, and leadership helped the

troops maintain their weapons and preserve the victory.

 

[trooper]

There are many parallels between Isandlwana and the Little Big Horn, both battles were lost because of arrogance on the part of the commanders, ignorance of the enemy and their disposition, splitting the command without intelligence of the enemy's position, and being overwhelmed by superior numbers. Once the Zulus moved to contact that was the end, at Rorke's Drift the barricades slowed them down and enabled the defenders to keep them more or less at arm's length. Do read the books I posted earlier, they are written by a soldier who has studied the ground with a military eye and his conclusions make interesting reading.

 

[Cardigan600]

Yo Trooper, I wont disagree with you guys, as I said it is not my subject, but looking at the evidence, how can 1300 crack Troops with a rifle that can fire 10 rounds a minute at a range on 1000 yards get beat by a rabble, it should have been a Turkey shoot, you cannot always believe the history books. I was taught at school that slaves built the Pyramids, and that Moses brought on the 7 plagues of Egypt, but now I know its a load of Hogwash, the Egyptians built there own Pyramids, and a Volcano brought on the 7 plagues of Egypt, so you have always got to have an open mind about history.
Bernard.

 

[trooper]

Bernard, first the Zulus were not a rabble despite how they appear in the films, they were a highly disciplined fighting force. Secondly they were capable of high speed on foot and closed the distance very rapidly. Once they got to hand to hand combat they had the advantage, both in skill and in numbers. They did suffer horrendous casualties, Cetewayo said that "a spear had been thrust into the belly of the Zulu nation" when the impis returned. The same steam roller tactics were also used by the Russians in the First and Second World Wars and by the Chinese in Korea, wars fought with weapons vastly superior to the single shot Martinis but with the same result. Not a turkey shoot by any means.

 

[damian]

There are many parallels between Isandlwana and the Little Big Horn, both battles were lost because of arrogance on the part of the commanders, ignorance of the enemy and their disposition, splitting the command without intelligence of the enemy's position, and being overwhelmed by superior numbers. Once the Zulus moved to contact that was the end, at Rorke's Drift the barricades slowed them down and enabled the defenders to keep them more or less at arm's length. Do read the books I posted earlier, they are written by a soldier who has studied the ground with a military eye and his conclusions make interesting reading.

Mike Snook's books are very good. I am not sure I agree with him blaming Durnford for the whole thing. I quite like Durnford myself. Snook being OC of the RRW seems a bit keen to exonerate the regiment and blame Durnford.

 

[1879fanatic]

Mike Snook's books are very good. I am not sure I agree with him blaming Durnford for the whole thing. I quite like Durnford myself. Snook being OC of the RRW seems a bit keen to exonerate the regiment and blame Durnford.

Damian,
I am in complete agreement with you. Durnford is the one that is associated these days with Gen. Custer, both in flambouyance, looks and character. However, nothing Durnford did was directly responsible for Chelmsford's larger error of underestimation. Durnford was also going out from camp under the assumption that Chelmsfords foray was about to be encircled.
The book is wonderful for it's maps and layout of the battlefield and the tactical standpoint, some of the premises are conjecture, which you can choose to believe or not.

 

[gk5717]

Nothing against this particular program, but I,m always suspect of these documentories that go back more than a hundred years, find 3 artifacts, then make a conclusion that the particular battle happened in a completely differrent way than history reported it.
I will say that it is interesting television. Better than the UFO and Big Foot crap!
Gary

 

[Spitfrnd]

Nothing against this particular program, but I,m always suspect of these documentories that go back more than a hundred years, find 3 artifacts, then make a conclusion that the particular battle happened in a completely differrent way than history reported it.
I will say that it is interesting television. Better than the UFO and Big Foot crap!
Gary

Couldn't agree more.

 

[damian]

What's wrong with UFO's then guys.
X-Files teh movie is comming.
Then you will know the truth that the FBI has a whole special force to deal with the paranormal.
Just kidding
Regards
Damian

 

[Cardigan600]

Yo Troopers, now who's wearing blinkers, and has a closed mind, they went back thousands of years to disprove the written word about Moses and the Plagues, and they can back it with scientific evidence, also Damian or 4th Hussar might know this one, they are big fans of Winstone Churchill. I read somewhere way back a quote from the great man who came out and said there are UFO's out there, and lets face it he would be one of the first to know if there was.
Bernard.

 

[Cardigan600]

Yo Troopers, now who's wearing blinkers, and has a closed mind, they went back thousands of years to disprove the written word about Moses and the Plagues, and they can back it with scientific evidence, also Damian or 4th Hussar might know this one, they are big fans of Winstone Churchill. I read somewhere way back a quote from the great man who came out and said there are UFO's out there, and lets face it he would be one of the first to know if there was.
Bernard.

Yo Troopers and to add, who said Bigfoot doesn't exsist, only a couple of weeks back they discovered two Tribes in Brazil, nobody knew exsisted, take the blinkers off guys keep an open mind.
Bernard.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Couldn't agree more.

I'm with you two. The conclusions made by that show always seem tenuous at best.

 

[Njja]

Yo Trooper, I wont disagree with you guys, as I said it is not my subject, but looking at the evidence, how can 1300 crack Troops with a rifle that can fire 10 rounds a minute at a range on 1000 yards get beat by a rabble, it should have been a Turkey shoot, you cannot always believe the history books. I was taught at school that slaves built the Pyramids, and that Moses brought on the 7 plagues of Egypt, but now I know its a load of Hogwash, the Egyptians built there own Pyramids, and a Volcano brought on the 7 plagues of Egypt, so you have always got to have an open mind about history.
Bernard.

Valid points someone eariler wrote History = His story and that is correct. Most book authors have a point of view....and their work reflect their opinion.