Napoleonic Poll (1 Viewer)

[Scott]

Baron,

You are correct about Cantinieres in other eras. It's just that they get more "sexy" in the Napoleonic wars with the shorter skirts, gaiters, and military jackets. The real cantinieres were probably matronly but I like the "ideal." I have a pretty good collection of Napoleon III 1860s-70s cantiniere figures and a ton of period images, but we are talking Napoleon I.

 

[Scott]

After thinking about the post, I'd say you could do Napoleonic w/o "masses" and still have the color by doing light infantry troops fighting as skirmishers for various countries.

 

[Spitfrnd]

I’m sorry that you find other members opinions a puzzlement, I’m sure that your theory applies to many periods not just the ones you have listed but I think you’ll find we were just trying to stick to the topic of the thread – Napoleonic’s.

Jeff

Well Jeff, opinions all have a basis, which is interesting to share from time to time. The topic of the thread was whether you collect Napoleonics and why or why not. If you collect one line that has the same stated "problem" as the Napoleonic line, it is relevent and of interest to know why you don't have the same problem with the line you do collect. In any event, it is of interest to understand the basis of the opinions of others on a topic of interest to you. Hopefully that is not controversial.

 

[theBaron]

Baron,

You are correct about Cantinieres in other eras. It's just that they get more "sexy" in the Napoleonic wars with the shorter skirts, gaiters, and military jackets. The real cantinieres were probably matronly but I like the "ideal." I have a pretty good collection of Napoleon III 1860s-70s cantiniere figures and a ton of period images, but we are talking Napoleon I.

Actually, in the SYW, they were also wearing a "uniform" that we'd be familiar with, from our familiarity with what they wore in the Napoleonic War. Often the uniform jacket the Marketenderinnen adopted was a version of the hussar's dolman, probably because it was generally more colorful. You're probably right about the hemlines though I suspect they weren't too much higher, in general, and followed civilian fashion.

There is an anecdote from Frederick's time, to illustrate how formidable the lady sutlers were (and how much more so than their male colleagues). In the peacetime years after the Seven Years War, Frederick was conducting his autumn manoeuvres, and he saw a small hill from which he thought that he could have a good view of the evolutions. When he and his staff reached the top of the hill, they found two women had pitched a stall there to sell food. When asked if they would move, they told the king that "he could watch his toy soldiers from any place", but this spot was ideal for their trade. Amused, Frederick had to beat a solemn retreat.

(Sounds like a good idea for a little vignette...)

Prost!
Brad

 

[Scott]

I do have a couple of 18th century prints I found in the Vinkhuizen collection on-line of Prussian Marketenderin.

http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgtitle_tree.cfm?level=1&title_id=269277


I don't own his figure but I like it.

They are "neat!" There'a 1893 print of one of them trotting on a horse loaded with goods in the Prussian line of march. That "uniform" seems to continued among German folk groups and the "Karnaval" dancers.

 

[Spitfrnd]

That is a pretty cool figure Scott. I think the uniform has "evolved" a bit from that second photo.

 

[Spitfrnd]

....I think it's more accurate to say that they employed it to a degree that no other army had used before the French revolutionary wars. The Austrians used column attacks already in the Seven Years War (eg, their attack on the Prussians at Hochkirch), and Prince Henry copied the tactic from them towards the end of that war.

Prost!
Brad

That could be; I know little about the Seven Years War. Various historians do attribute the use of the close order column attack to the French and in particular to Lazare Carnot.

There is no doubt that Napoleon perfected their use and then switched to mixed formations as the weakness of the limited firepower of the column was exploited by French opponents. D'Erlon's 1st Corp attack at Waterloo actually started with each division advancing in closely spaced battalion lines behind one another for enhanced fire power but disintergrated into what appearred to be a gigantic column as it progressed and came under fire; perhaps because of the relatively large numbers of inexperienced troops.

 

[forlornhoper]

I think the napoleon period is an ideal theme for collectors and due to many considerations i adopt the same theory to all the military periods i collect,i use the "Snap Shot Scene" theory ,whereby i use small amounts of figures / vehicles to create a scene from a battle that hopefully depicts a snap shot of an incident ( factual or not ) from the battle of interest.Would love to create a couple of squares being charged by heavy cavalry but the cost of one square is approx £ 1800 from K&C way too much for my general interest in the period.A square must look cool to all those collectors who specialise in the period and Kudos to those lads.

 

[Scott]

I hope I made clear that the figure isn't mine. Those German Karnival clubs all seem to have Prussian "costumes" for men and women. I found the photos a while back searching the word "Marketenderin". The French have a semi-religious festival with everyone dressing in Napoleonic I and III uniforms with the woman as cantinieres. They do not appear to be battle reenactors, but "chowder and marching" units like our local Concord Minutemen.

 

[damian]

I blame some of the manufacturers for the Napoleonic problems. Traditionally Napoleonic infantry sets were released in sets of five figures. One officer and four privates. This is how Trophy, Tradition and Frontline do it. Now everyone releases individual figures. It is easier to build up a big formation if you are bulk buying. Buying ten individual kneeling firing soldiers is a bit daunting.

 

[Kiwi]

While I am not American nor do I even live anywhere near the USA, I too collect Napoleonics.

I have just finished reading everyones posts on this thread and have enjoyed the discussion around 'required numbers'. I do find that, while I collect duplicates of any one figure to provide a dramatic scene, in all reality you don't often need very many at all to give a good illusion.

How many of you here can recall dioramas so big it does your head in and where you see something different each time you go back to look at it? The human eye cannot take in all that is going on around it, the human brain certainly can not, and if a diorama gets too big to take in, parts of the brain shuts down to enable you to focus on a particular scene or section at a time (just as eyewitness accounts detail in real life battles).

Often it is the story behind the scene and the way it is told that fires the imagination. That is what I believe we try to recreate here in our hobby. For my choice, the Napoleonic Wars were the first global wars, the discipline required to hold in place and move those large Napoleonic formations around Europe, the sheer colour and, just maybe, the last vestiges of chivalry, those are the things that capture my imagination.

Kiwi

 

[Scott]

Kiwi, Right! You do need some mass and some detail.

Rarely did a drummer, officer, private, sapper, and colorbearer stand around in a group to have their images painted for uniform plates.

 

[redsoldiercollector]

It is my absolute favorite era to collect. It is mostly what I paint and buy. A few years ago I made a decision not to sell any Napoleonic, knight, or gift figure that I had or created. Anything else was fair game. 95% of what I have in Kand C is anpoleonic as well as metal britains, so this "reb" not "yank" loves that era.

 

[Spitfrnd]

I blame some of the manufacturers for the Napoleonic problems. Traditionally Napoleonic infantry sets were released in sets of five figures. One officer and four privates. This is how Trophy, Tradition and Frontline do it. Now everyone releases individual figures. It is easier to build up a big formation if you are bulk buying. Buying ten individual kneeling firing soldiers is a bit daunting.

I don't know mate. I much prefer having them available individually. Then you can shape your formations and scenes just as you like without buying any surplus figures you don't want. I don't even like the Britains two packs since with some, I really only want one of the figures and the CS three packs are even worse. That even deters me from some of the beautiful FL staff sets; I would much prefer to just buy the figures I like or to nibble away at the set rather than having to swallow it whole.

 

[maddadicus]

One of my favorite periods to collect. I love the massed columns and the pomp and circumstance of the period. Colorful uniforms, multiple unit choices, drums, band, great inspirational music, my favorite " Waterloo "movie, what's not to love about collecting these guys. All of my Nappy's are from 1 company. I collect 6 man marching sets, usually 4 man cavalry and artillery with crew, all made by Mulberry Miniatures out of England. ACW is first love ,Nappy's second at this point in time..Michael

 

[OldDragon]

Just to share .. my favorite period & troops (hope you like)
PS. The mirror helps to make up for the smaller numbers

 

[wadepat]

Hi OldDragon,

You have a wonderful collection of Napoleonic figures and your pictures are grand! Thanks for sharing your collection with us!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[OldDragon]

Oh Yes, ... Reinforcements

OD

 

[OldDragon]

Hi OldDragon,

.. your pictures are grand! Thanks for sharing your collection with us!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

Thank you for the kind words Pat.
Couldn't have done it without Fishead's detailed guidance on the How To Post Pictures thread.

OD

 

[wadepat]

Thank you for the kind words Pat.
Couldn't have done it without Fishead's detailed guidance on the How To Post Pictures thread.

OD

Hi OD,

You're welcome. Your pictures deserve high praise as does Tim's assistance. I'm glad you have begun to post pictures and share your collection with us! You have a beautiful collection of Napoleonics. I wish my collection was so rich in such figures!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat