Nazi's at Normandy (1 Viewer)

[Aggie99]

So, what exactly were the "type" of nazis that were on the beaches of Normandy? And what were the "type" that were more in-land fighting against the US Paratroopers!??

In "toy soldier" terms, there are "German Paratroopers," "Wermacht Troops" (which I understand to be more of a general term), "SS Troops", "German Infantry", etc.

I am sure a lot of these terms are synonymous with each other, but I am not 100% clear on the differences.

The same goes for the US Soldiers. Was it the Paratroopers who were more inland, while the guys storming the beaches were "Infantry"?? Or are they all "Infantry" (in that Infantry is a simple generic term)?

Sorry if this is a basic question, but I have never really worried about such particular detail. I always studied this stuff from a historic overview perspective and not from a "what division of the army was where" perspective.

Thanks

 

[Mitch]

Aggie...

The germans fielded the 352nd which was a good experienced unit and the 709th, 711th, 716th infantry divisions made up of many european personal and the 6th Parachute Reg a very good unit along with the 30th mobile brigade and I think Buniachenko russian brigade.

There was aslo the elite 21st panzer division and the 12th SS HJ and Panzer Lehr divisions either side of the Veys Bay

The Das Riech at the time was still in southern france, its arguable that these units could have tackled the allied invasion but, tactics for trying to contain the invasion force were wholly unsatisfactory but, thats another debate
Mitch

 

[Currahee Chris]

the 12th Hitler Jugend Division was in Normandy as well (the Hitler "Youth" division).

I always had a hard time wrestling around with the Germany army and it's status in WW2. Essentially, the Wehrmacht was what we would consider the "Army". The SS was initially a political group that supported Hitler to the end. Eventually, they militarized and created their own divisions. As far as command goes, I do believe overall, the Wehrmact had operational control over the use of the Waffen SS though they were favored by Hitler and could take more liberties in what orders to obey and not.

As far as the US side- the 101st and 82nd Airborne divisions jumped into France and fought inland to help ease the burden of the landings. Airborne divisions in WW2 were nothing more than elite infantry divisions once they hit the ground- the fancy parachutes simply allowed them to deploy from the air.

On the beaches, the Big Red One landed at Utah and the Rangers and 29th Infantry Divisions landed at Omaha.

Hope that helps.

 

[johnnybach]

Aggie - Have you read "The Longest Day" by Cornelius Ryan?

I don't mean have you seen the film - though that's a good follow up. But to really get to grips with your questions - there 's really no other way than to get your head down and - read.

I just loved this book, when I first got hold of it - and for me its the best overview of what happened on D-Day ever. It's easy to read - and really tells you a lot of what happened - and may give you an insight into your questions.

He's a really good and readable author - and really brings things to life. Another couple of books by him tells the tale of "Operation Market Garden" (what happened trying to get through to Arnhem) and then in "The Last Battle" - the end at Berlin.

My advice is to get hold of - and read them in that order.

The first will tell you in a very readable way what happened on the beaches in Normandy. The second will tell you about how the allies tried to break into Germany, and foreshorten the war - whilst the third tells you in a most graphic way a lot about the Battle for Berlin at the end.

I'm pretty certain you will know the answers to most of your questions by then.

Hope this helps - johnnybach. ps Don't try to read 'em all at once!!

 

[johnnybach]

PPS The second book is called "A Bridge too far" - sorry, I missed out the title. Another good film follow up to the book also, - johnnybach

 

[lancer]

There are literally hundreds of books on all aspects of D-Day and the fight for Normandy, and France. A good starting point read from the German side is Paul Carell's "Invasion, They're Coming". Michael Reynolds wrote a good book on Normandy called "Steel Inferno: I SS Panzer Corps in Normandy". As mentioned, Ryan's "The Longest Day" is a good starting place for an overall view. US Army units on D-Day had the US 4th Infantry Division landing at Utah, while the US 1st and 29th Divisions landed at Omaha. Prior to the landings, the US 82nd Airborne and the US 101st Airborne Divisions landed behind the beaches to help secure roads, villages, bridges, strong points, and to sow confusion. The British Empire had a very large contribution as well with three beach assignments. They landed 2 British and 1 Canadian Division with airborne support, as well. It is a great campaign to study. -- Al

 

[Mitch]

Lest not forget the role of the british airborne and glider troops troops also on the invasion and Ambrose et al have done some very good accounts of their role in the invasion
Mitch

 

[Currahee Chris]

......The British Empire had a very large contribution as well with three beach assignments. They landed 2 British and 1 Canadian Division with airborne support, as well. It is a great campaign to study. -- Al

amateurs the lot of 'em.

 

[Mitch]

I think the ''special realationship'' requires I let that dasterdly comment slide!!!! lol
Mitch

 

[johnnybach]

I seem to recall a motto from somewhere..

"We stand together. Then, Now and Always"

Now where did I hear that?

Johnnybach

 

[Currahee Chris]

I think the ''special realationship'' requires I let that dasterdly comment slide!!!! lol
Mitch

rest assured mate, I love the British, Canadian, Australian and New Zealand armies. They are the second best armies in the world

(friendly banter all in good humor)

 

[lancer]

In the spirit of presenting all sides, may I also suggest John Keegan's excellent book, "Six Armies in Normandy". Covers the US, British, Canadian, French, Polish, and German armies from June 6 to August 5, 1944. Well worth the read. -- Al

 

[fmethorst]

The German Wehrmacht (Armed Forces) consists of:
Heer (Army)
Luftwaffe (Air Force), includes paratroopers
Kriegsmarine (Navy)

Both the army and air force operated flak units.

The Waffen SS (Armed SS) was the military arm of the larger SS political organization.

A good account of the Canadian battles with 12.SS-Panzer-Division "Hitlerjungend" is Mark Zuehlke's book "Holding Juno"

http://www.zuehlke.ca/Canadian-Battle-Series/holding-juno

 

[binder001]

To go to your basic question in "toy soldier" terms.

US forces - yes, the paratroopers landed "inland" to secure road junctions, river crossings and to support the invading troops. The paratroopers were later reinforced by glider infantry who wore the same uniforms as the "regular" infantry. The US Army forces that assaulted the beaches were primarily infantry, backed up with engineers, armor, etc. The Rangers were light infantry with extra traiining and motivation and were used to lead assaults (in Europe WW2). The paratroops wore distinctive uniforms, the infantry, Rangers and glider infantry wore the same basic uniforms and gear.

The US Army landed against German army units and soon were fighting some German paratroopers (who were Luftwaffe personnel). The US Army didn't face a lot of SS troops until later in Normandy. The SS were primarily engaged against the British Commonwealth forces along with more German army units..

Gary B.

 

[Mitch]

Chris...

So, in summary mate.. The amatuers got the SS elite and, that means someone else got the old men kids and conscripts!!!!! lol

Seriously, Lancer brought up the author Mark Reynolds any of his books on the german divisions are excellent, informative and well worth looking at. The book Frank put forth is also an excellent read so, one is spoilt for information on the Normandy theatre of operations
Mitch

 

[Aggie99]

JohnnyBach,

Aggie - Have you read "The Longest Day" by Cornelius Ryan?

But to really get to grips with your questions - there 's really no other way than to get your head down and - read.

I have not read "The Longest Day" but have always wanted too. I am not adverse to reading, as I am currently in Law School and reading is pretty much all I do (all day - every day)!

When I am out of school, it is on my planned reading list. Maybe over the summer!?

 

[Aggie99]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I appreciate it.

My main goal at this point was to not build a diorama with the wrong Nazis in the wrong place. (Well, I guess all the Nazis were wrong....but you know what I mean.)

I mean, if I build a diorama of a town that is all bombed out (in Normandy/France), and I have US Paratroopers in the town....I wanted to make sure I had the right kind of Nazi figures in the town as well.

 

[Mitch]

German infantry, para's SS none of them would be out of place in a normandy town/ village setting. They were all there
Mitch

 

[lancer]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I appreciate it.

My main goal at this point was to not build a diorama with the wrong Nazis in the wrong place. (Well, I guess all the Nazis were wrong....but you know what I mean.)

I mean, if I build a diorama of a town that is all bombed out (in Normandy/France), and I have US Paratroopers in the town....I wanted to make sure I had the right kind of Nazi figures in the town as well.

Mitch hit it on the head. In the villages or hedgerows, the Allies would have fought German regular army, Luftwaffe paras, Waffen SS, armor. Just about anything the Germans threw together. The beaches would have been defended by regular army divisions (either 1st or 2nd rate or lower) and some armor (the 21st Panzer Div., late in the day) near the British beaches.
Have fun, there is no chance of running out of reading material. -- Al

 

[fmethorst]

While I agree with the notion that most types of German units were present in Normandy I think we should be careful to not leave the impression that "anything goes". Historically, specific allied units engaged specific German units at specific times and places. If a collector is truly concerned with accurately representing a historical event then a certain amount of research is in order. This is particulary true as one displays units with highly recognizable unique aspects (i.e. operating the Jagdpanther, Sturmpanzer IV, Tiger II etc.).

A relatively complete list of German units encountered by the allies during the Normandy campaign (June 6, 1944 - August 30, 1944). it should be noted that many of the units listed here were in the process of being rebuilt or formed and had very little combat power. Some units were little more than Kampfgruppen. In other cases only individual elements of the unit listed (i.e. companies, battalions) were present. Almost all units were understrength in some fashion.

Armored Divisions
1.SS-Panzer-Division "LSSAH"
2.Panzer-Division
2.SS-Panzer-Division "Das Reich"
9.Panzer-Division
9.SS-Panzer-Division "Hohenstaufen"
10.SS-Panzer-Division "Frundsberg"
12.SS-Panzer-Division "Hitlerjugend"
17.SS-Panzergrenadier-Dvision 'Gotz von Berlichingen"
21.Panzer-Division
116.Panzer-Division
Panzer-Lehr-Division

Infantry Divisions
2.Fallschirmjäger-Division
3.Fallschirmjäger-Division
5.Fallschirmjäger-Division
6.Fallschirmjäger-Division
16.Luftwaffenfelddivision
77.Infanterie-Division
84.Infanterie-Division
85.Infanterie-Division
89.Infanterie-Division
91.Luftlande-Division
243.Infanterie-Division
265.Infanterie-Division
266.Infanterie-Division
271.Infanterie-Division
272.Infanterie-Division
275.Infanterie-Division
276.Infanterie-Division
277.Infanterie-Division
326.Infanterie-Division
331.Infanterie-Division
343.Infanterie-Division
346.Infanterie-Division
352.Infanterie-Division
353.Infanterie-Division
363.Infanterie-Division
708.Infanterie-Division
709.Infanterie-Division
711.Infanterie-Division
716.Infanterie-Division

GHQ units
Panzer-Ausbildungs-und Ersatz-Abteilung 100
schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101
schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 102
Panzer-Abteilung 206
Sturmpanzer-Abteilung 217
Panzer-Abteilung 301 (Funklenk)
Panzer-Abteilung 302 (Funklenk)
schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503
schwere Panzerjäger-Abteilung 654
Panzerjäger-Abteilung 657
Panzerjäger-Abteilung 668
Artillerie-Pak-Abteilung 1039
Artillerie-Pak-Abteilung 1040
Artillerie-Pak-Abteilung 1041
Artillerie-Pak-Abteilung 1053
Fallschirm-Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 12
Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 341
Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 394
Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 902
Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 1348
Artillerie-Brigade 704
SS-Artillerie-Abteilung 101
Artillerie-Abteilung 456
Artillerie-Abteilung 457
Artillerie-Abteilung 460
Artillerie-Abteilung 555
Artillerie-Batterie 625
Artillerie-Abteilung 628
Artillerie-Abteilung 763
Artillerie-Abteilung 937
Artillerie-Abteilung 989
Artillerie-Abteilung 992
Artillerie-Abteilung 1151
Artillerie-Abteilung 1192
Artillerie-Abteilung 1193
Artillerie-Abteilung 1194
Artillerie-Abteilung 1198
Artillerie-Schule Autun
Artillerie-Schule Suippes
Werfer-Brigade 7
Werfer-Brigade 8
Werfer-Brigade 9
Stellungs-Werfer-Regiment 101
SS-Werfer-Abteilung 102
II.Fallschirm-Korps
III.Flak-Korps
Sicherungs-Regiment 1
schnelle Brigade 30
Fallschirmjäger-Regiment 6
Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 12
Maschinengewehr-Bataillon 17
Pionier-Bataillon 600
Festung-Stamm-Truppen
Ost-Bataillon Huber
Pionier-Bataillon Angers
Sturm-Bataillon AOK 7