New Collector with some Durbar questions (1 Viewer)

[tfischer]

Hi all I've been a follower of the thread for quite a while now and decided now that I am interested in starting to collect more seriously I'd come here for some sage advice.

I've been playing with toy soldiers since I was a kid and had a bunch of plastics by deetail and some unknown manufacturers that were my pride and joy, as well as buckets of your standard green army men. A good friend of mine's father had a collection of metal toy soldiers that was like nothing I had ever seen before and was my first introduction to the hobby. I was given by my grandmother a W. Britains set of ACW union infantry firing and a membership to the britains collectors club, whose two annual figures currently constitute my entire metal collection. High School and College gave me different priorities (girls, alcohol, cars) but I never lost a passion for toy soldiers just put it on hold. As a young man in his late 20's I'm looking forward to beginning to collect again.

I've always been a great admirer of any line having to do with the British Empire and especially the Raj and the Delhi Durbar. The sets I have come across since finding this forum are really incredible I have a few questions which I hope some of the durbar collectors on the forum can help me out with.

1) I plan on collecting both matte and glossy in the future, but for me the Durbar has to be glossy to reflect the pageantry of the event. with the W. Britains glossy line done, does it make sense to try and go back to collect this line?

2) If not does anyone recommend another line, Beau Geste, Hocker, Marlborough; does collecting only one line make sense or do you collect across a variety of manufacturers?

I know this seems like a lot to ask, but any help would be much appreciated especially from the durbar veterans out there.

Thanks again,
Tim

 

[wadepat]

Hi Tim,

I am thrilled you are considering collecting the Durbar! I have been collecting the Durbar for years and the event constitutes the largest portion of my collection. I am only too happy to respond to your questions.

Your first question was:

1) I plan on collecting both matte and glossy in the future, but for me the Durbar has to be glossy to reflect the pageantry of the event. with the W. Britains glossy line done, does it make sense to try and go back to collect this line?

Yes, it makes perfect sense. It is still possible to complete the entire line if you are patient and willing to keep a keen eye on eBay. However, you will find a few sets/pieces to be very, very elusive. In particular, the Camel Drummer is extremely difficult to acquire, but, with patience, you will find it occasionally appears in auction.

I also want to add that the Britains Glossy Durbar line is not so extensive as to be overwhelming to collect. The figures are especially nice and, when placed together, they make an impressive display. I do not think you can go wrong by collecting this series. You will only need to be patient in order to succeed.

Your second question was:

2) If not does anyone recommend another line, Beau Geste, Hocker, Marlborough; does collecting only one line make sense or do you collect across a variety of manufacturers?

Hmmm. This question requires a lengthier response, but I will give it my best shot.

First of all, you might want to distinguish among the three major Durbars. The William Hocker Imperial Durbar series is a presentation of figures associated with the 1877 Durbar. The 1877 Durbar was a celebration of Queen Victoria's new title as the "Empress of India."

As you probably know, the William Hocker figures are crafted in the style of the older Britains figures. However, I find them a bit smaller than the figures of the glossy Britains series and I do not feel they work very well together. Further, the Britains series depicts the events of the 1903 Durbar which was a celebration of a new English monarch. At any rate, collecting Mr. Hocker's figures is a highly satisfying experience and, simply stated, I cannot get enough of his wonderful figures.

The Beau Geste, Britains, and Marlborough Durbar lines present figures associated with the 1903 Durbar which, unquestionably, was the largest and most magnificent of the three major Durbars. My favorite manufacturer of the 1903 Durbar figures is Beau Geste. The sculpting and painting is extraordinary and very, very appealing to the eye. You might also note that most of Beau Geste's figures do not duplicate the Durbar figures and sets produced by Britains or Marlborough. In this sense, they are somewhat unique as there is some duplication of sets found between the Britains and Marlborough lines. Further, the style and scale of the Beau Geste figures, in my opinion, do not render them very compatible with the figures of Britains or Marlborough. In my case, I simply display the Beau Geste figures separately from those of other manufacturers.

Of all the manufacturers, Marlborough offers the most extensive line of Durbar figures. Included within their line is a wonderful series of Bazaar or Marketplace sets which can add much depth to a display. I freely display Marlborough figures with the Britains glossy figures as they are reasonably compatible in style and scale. An experienced collector will quickly spot differences between the figures of these two manufacturers, but the lay person will hardly notice the differences.

The 1911 Durbar was the last of the three major Durbars and was, once again, a celebration of a new English monarch. To the best of my knowledge, no manufacturer has attempted to develop an extensive line of 1911 Durbar figures. However, Hiriart produces two fine 1911 Durbar elephants, which, due to a smaller scale, are not compatible with any of the other manufacturers I have mentioned above.

Factors that may influence your decision of what to collect are 1) budget, 2) extensiveness of the line, and 3) the availability of the figures. Let me make a brief comment about each of these factors:

1) Budget: Before making a final decision regarding what to collect, take a close look at the prices required to purchase the figures. As you might expect, the elephants are expensive regardless of manufacturer. However, there are differences between the manufactures and you will find the Beau Geste and Marlborough elephants are more expensive than the glossy Britains or the Hocker elephants. As an offset to the expense is the fact that Beau Geste and Marlborough offer a more extensive series of elephants.

2) Extensiveness of the line: The glossy Britains line is relatively manageable in size. There are enough sets to make a very nice display, but not so many as to be overwhelming. Unfortunately, these figures must now be acquired on the secondary market and it will take time to acquire them.

As I mentioned earlier, Marlborough produces the most extensive line of 1903 Durbar figures. Marlborough only slowly retires these figures, so most of them are still available. On the other hand, the Beau Geste series is constantly evolving and while Marlborough offers the most extensive line of figures, Beau Geste is releasing new sets each year and who knows how extensive the Beau Geste line will ultimately become?

Finally, the William Hocker 1877 Imperial Durbar series is also manageable. There are enough figures/sets to make a really nice display and all of them are still available directly from Mr. Hocker. I doubt that Mr. Hocker will be adding many sets to his line as, historically, he has not done so. Also, his line is somewhat unique as it depicts the 1877 Durbar rather than the more popular 1903 Durbar.

From my perspective, your choices are most difficult as all these lines are exciting, colorful, and very interesting. You cannot go wrong with any of these choices. I guess that is why I am doomed to collect the Durbar figures produced by each of these manufacturers.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance in your decision making process. I look forward to learning what you decide and to viewing what you collect.

Good luck!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[damian]

Collect them all.
You won't be able to stop yourself.
Pat has summed up the options well I would say.

 

[tfischer]

Thank you guys for your feedback, especially you pat your help is much appreciated. I've been scouring ebay for the old britains thinking I'd start there, but with all the other great sets and manufacturers out there it is hard to decide on a starting point. The sets are just all too good. What are your guy's theories on buying a set without its original box, I've seen a few good deals but wasn't sure if the lack of the box made the sets suspect in some way? I don't intend to collect for investment just enjoyment, but I know there is some debate on the merits of having the box and set intact.

Sincerely,
Tim

 

[tfischer]

And I hope to have some good acquisitions and pics up in the near future

-Tim

 

[wadepat]

Thank you guys for your feedback, especially you pat your help is much appreciated. I've been scouring ebay for the old britains thinking I'd start there, but with all the other great sets and manufacturers out there it is hard to decide on a starting point. The sets are just all too good. What are your guy's theories on buying a set without its original box, I've seen a few good deals but wasn't sure if the lack of the box made the sets suspect in some way? I don't intend to collect for investment just enjoyment, but I know there is some debate on the merits of having the box and set intact.
Sincerely,
Tim

Hi Tim,

Unquestionably, having the original boxes is a plus and adds to the value of the set. But, generally speaking, you will have to pay a bit more to acquire the set with the original box. If you purchase from an authorized dealer presently available figures produced by Beau Geste, William Hocker, or Marlborough, you should receive the box as part of the transaction. Consequently, I think we are really talking about the boxes that accompany the retired glossy Britains series. In the case of the retired Britains, I would recommend getting the box whenever possible. However, if an item appears in auction and you really want/need the item for your collection, I would not let acquiring the box become an absolute requirement for my purchase. Other collectors might feel differently regarding your question, but since you are not immediately concerned with resale value, the box is really of secondary importance.

I do want to add that if you acquire the boxes, you must also store them and care for them. In your planning, be aware that you will need storage space for the boxes. I hate to tell you how much of my basement storage area is devoted to toy soldier boxes! {eek3} As your collection grows, so grows the need for box storage space.

Please keep us informed regarding the progress you are making with your collection. There are a number of forum members who will be interested.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[The Military Workshop]

I seem to remember a thread a couple of years ago about most expensive series/subject to collect and Durbar was the one nominated (something to do with the Elephants). I think there have been some good image threads on the subject over the years and Pat's thread of his collection room from a few months ago would be a good place to look.

If only I could get some Aussies to get nostalgic for the days of the Raj :wink2: It is a colourful subject.

 

[Jack]

I seem to remember a thread a couple of years ago about most expensive series/subject to collect and Durbar was the one nominated (something to do with the Elephants). I think there have been some good image threads on the subject over the years and Pat's thread of his collection room from a few months ago would be a good place to look.

If only I could get some Aussies to get nostalgic for the days of the Raj :wink2: It is a colourful subject.

Brett

I like the series. What can you do for me? Is it possible to collect slowly and still have a decent display?

Jack

 

[The Military Workshop]

Brett

I like the series. What can you do for me? Is it possible to collect slowly and still have a decent display?

Jack

Jack,
Define slowly{sm4}. So let me make sure I understand. You want to collect Durbar in addition to Lighthorse, American Revolution, Zulus, Naps, and WWI ground troops and aviation. I :salute::you.

I might need to rustle up a few more Durbar fans before I head in that direction. I think I can scratch Waynepoo and Wayne WA off the list {sm4}

A series too far for me I think.

Brett

 

[Jack]

Jack,
Define slowly{sm4}. So let me make sure I understand. You want to collect Durbar in addition to Lighthorse, American Revolution, Zulus, Naps, and WWI ground troops and aviation. I :salute::you.

I might need to rustle up a few more Durbar fans before I head in that direction. I think I can scratch Waynepoo and Wayne WA off the list {sm4}

A series too far for me I think.

Brett

Yes ... a Sunday afternoon dream. Wadepat's fault with all his photographs.

That said - Zulus are almost done, American Revolution (I see you used the English descriptor) might just need some reinforcements from your current stock and then a rest (and really hasn't it all been done? We get it. You won!), I am almost up to date with the ALH, Aviation is a side collection and WW1 ground troops surely aren't appearing anytime soon - gee its almost been a century, everything must be done by now), so I can see some collecting dollars freeing up ...maybe next year!

I have to remind myself sometimes that you are in the business of selling toy soldiers. A lesser man might have said - 'you bet Jack I will do up an order now'!

 

[The Military Workshop]

Yes ... a Sunday afternoon dream. Wadepat's fault with all his photographs.

That said - Zulus are almost done, American Revolution (I see you used the English descriptor) might just need some reinforcements from your current stock and then a rest (and really hasn't it all been done? We get it. You won!), I am almost up to date with the ALH, Aviation is a side collection and WW1 ground troops surely aren't appearing anytime soon - gee its almost been a century, everything must be done by now), so I can see some collecting dollars freeing up ...maybe next year!

I have to remind myself sometimes that you are in the business of selling toy soldiers. A lesser man might have said - 'you bet Jack I will do up an order now'!

Agree, it should be some sort of forum offence subject to infractions when the evil Wadepat puts up pictures of his Durbar items. Anybody would think he is trying to persuade others to join the Durbar parade.

 

[wadepat]

Agree, it should be some sort of forum offence subject to infractions when the evil Wadepat puts up pictures of his Durbar items. Anybody would think he is trying to persuade others to join the Durbar parade.

Hi Brett,

^&grin^&grin^&grin Perish the thought! :rolleyes2:

Warmest personal regards,

Pat :wink2:

 

[Jack]

Hi Brett,

^&grin^&grin^&grin Perish the thought! :rolleyes2:

Warmest personal regards,

Pat :wink2:

Pat

Responding to one of Brett's posts - I bet you have never had to do that ... other than by PM of course!{sm4}

Jack

 

[wadepat]

Pat

Responding to one of Brett's posts - I bet you have never had to do that ... other than by PM of course!{sm4}

Jack

Hi Jack,

^&grin^&grin^&grin No comment. :rolleyes2:

Warmest personal regards,

Pat :wink2:

 

[damian]

Just thought I would post some pictures of the Durbar

 

[wadepat]

Hi Damian,

Outstanding! Your Marlborough Durbar display is incredible! Thanks for sharing the figures with us. I really, really appreciate seeing all the elephants displayed together! And, the Rewa Carriage is magnificent!

In the words of an appreciative audience, "Bravo! More! More!"

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[damian]

The furniture restorer finally delivered this refurnished display cabinet last night.
I insisted he put a mirror in the back.
I unpacked my Durbar sets last night and put them out.
There is a Fakir sleeping on a bed of nails which I will take better photographs of next week.
There are two Beau Geste Elephants as well
The durbar is a never ending series to collect.
I ma trying to continue with the Marlborough Durbar and need to revisit both the WM Hocker and Beau Geste lines
I have decided to place my library of books on the Durbar on top of the cabinet
I must take some more photos in daylight when I get a chance.

 

[damian]

More images

 

[damian]

More

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Tim,

Sorry I missed this thread before today, however Pat did an excellent job of answering your questions. The Durbar is the main stay of my collection. Drop in to my page here and look at some photos I have there. I will also tell you to keep an eye on ebay and other auction sites the Glossy Britains come up often and are usually fairly priced. Take your time and get them when the price is right and wont cripple you financially.

The other maker I suggest in Marlborough they are in a hiatus right now as the company was recently sold but the website claims they will return (I for one really hope so!) and as Pat mentioned Beau Geste is the jewel in the crown (IMO) and should not be missed, they will cost you a pretty penny but they are worth it and then some! Ana's research is impeccable and her painting skills are amazing. There are details on the figures that the photos on line don't show, you will be amazed and hooked once you see them in person.

I hope you will post photos and continue the discussion on this topic! A couple of my favorite sets to wet you appetite


Dave