New Jersey Toy Soldier Show — March 11, 2018 (1 Viewer)

[jazzeum]

I just left this show and to say it was horrible would be charitable. Probably the worst show I’ve ever attended and I have been attending them for 13 years. A few years ago I attended one in Wayne that I thought was awful. This one makes the Wayne show look like Chicago.

Aside from a Britains dealer, there were no dealers representing the major brands (King & Country, First Legion, etc.). If it had not been for AeroArt this show would have been a total loss and waste of time. Aside from spending some time at the AeroArt tables and talking to Thor, it took me about 10 to 15 minutes maximum to look at the rest of the “offerings,” if that’s what you can call them.

This show is a far cry from what it used to be and to save it something drastic must be done.

Had it noted been for AeroArt, I would have been furious about wasting the time to attend the show.

 

[Combat]

I've found most of the recent shows that I have attended to be boring and without much purpose. The Internet has rendered them mostly superfluous except for meeting up with other collectors. You can see and buy anything in real time online without the aggravation and expense of traveling to these events. I've almost never seen anything at a show that would interest me that I wasn't previously aware of and could buy online.

 

[Warrior]

Brad,
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience at the show.

This New Jersey show at one time was labeled as the "Cabin Fever" show, used to be the first show of the year, had 400 to 500 attendees over in the German/American social club in Schutzen Park. It was loaded with high caliber dealers who offered all the latest toy soldiers as well as vintage items, it was an excellent show.

Then it moved to Secaucus and was made up of mostly toy soldier vendors, but also general toy dealers. We started losing dealers to retirement/illness, but it was still a decent show.

Then it moved again to the Edison Convention Center and it took a nose dive; it was in the middle of nowhere and was probably 30/70 toy soldier dealers to general toy dealers. I decided after year two in Edison that enough was enough, so I dropped out. Then it moved again to Saddlebrook, then this year it moved to Hasbrouk Heights.

You want to kill a show; move it. This one has moved four times, losing dealers with each move. I heard Hobby Bunker and Tom Dubel were not there, that's two dealers who have the new items not in attendance. I dropped out as stated and Crown did as well.

When I started in the business 20 years ago, the shows were all vibrant, the internet was in it's infancy and shows were booming, at one time I attended 28 shows a year. Over time the internet has grown while the shows have not, I'm down to 11 shows now, will probably drop three or four after this year. I can see myself doing three or four shows in 2020 and beyond, it is what it is.

It's sad to see, but all things change, business changes, the way consumers shop changes, as a business owner you have to change as well or you'll end up like the dinosaurs did.

Again, sorry to see this result.......................

 

[theBaron]

It sounds like the show has undergone the same downward trend that the former Langhorne, PA, how followed. Might be some common denominators.

Prost!
Brad

 

[jazzeum]

It's sad to see, but all things change, business changes, the way consumers shop changes, as a business owner you have to change as well or you'll end up like the dinosaurs did.

Again, sorry to see this result.......................

The above sums it up. When things are going well, little marketing is required. However, when things are going poorly and one of the factors is purchasing through the internet, you have to find other ways to convince both sellers and buyers to come to shows. The old ways don’t work anymore.

In this age of Amazon and online shopping this is a challenge confronting many businesses and businesses are changing how they do business to attract customers.

The promoter of this show needs to find a way to adapt and if he can’t do so, perhaps the promoter needs to be changed. If not, we will be speaking about this show in the past tense.

 

[tdubel]

Hi, I figured this one might be a tough one, unfortunately, I had a family commitment and was not able to do the show. The promoter had an issue with the previous venue and has been trying to better establish the show. I agree there needs to be more marketing, but you also had 2 major dealers absent (Treefrog and Hobby Bunker) if you wanted to see new stuff.

That said, I personally enjoy all shows as I am always on the lookout for something unique, old , new, rare, etc. I did attend the Westcoaster this year and while much smaller that years past and a long distance trek for me, I found a few goodies that made the trip worth it! To me, the hunt is half the fun.


TD

 

[theBaron]

Well, he's finally using email, so he's lurched into the 20th century.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Warrior]

The above sums it up. When things are going well, little marketing is required. However, when things are going poorly and one of the factors is purchasing through the internet, you have to find other ways to convince both sellers and buyers to come to shows. The old ways don’t work anymore.

In this age of Amazon and online shopping this is a challenge confronting many businesses and businesses are changing how they do business to attract customers.

The promoter of this show needs to find a way to adapt and if he can’t do so, perhaps the promoter needs to be changed. If not, we will be speaking about this show in the past tense.

Roger and his family go to other shows promoting the Chicago show, they also take out ads in trade magazines, give the dealers stacks of flyers and post cards to send to their customers and have a Facebook page for their show; Bill Lango takes out ads, promotes his show through local newspapers, has a Facebook page and works his *** off to promote his show, Andy goes on local TV in San Antonio to promote his show, he takes out ads in trade magazines as well, full page color ads to boot. The MFCA run a world class show, draws attendees and exhibitors from all around the world, they run ads and promote the show through their modeling networks.

In order to make money/boost attendance you have to spend money, you have to use social media and whatever means necessary to promote your show.

The sad truth is the hobby is contracting, so as a promoter, you can only do so much; I'm sure there were a lot of people in the NY/NJ/PA area who knew about todays show, in the end it's up to them to attend or not attend.

There are probably 100 or more members on this forum from the PA/NY/NJ area who are within an hour or so of the show, how many attended today?

About ten years ago, there were roughly 30 to 35 toy soldier shows around the country; now I'd guess there are about half that number at best. In the NY/NJ area alone there used to be about 12 shows, we're down to four.

Four.

Shows die due to lack of attendance/sales, dealers aren't going to keep going if they are not making money no matter how much "fun" the shows are and how "neat" they are and how many hidden treasures there are at the shows.

Again, times change, ways to buy and sell change, you either adapt and change or you die, it's that simple.

 

[jazzeum]

Hi, I figured this one might be a tough one, unfortunately, I had a family commitment and was not able to do the show. The promoter had an issue with the previous venue and has been trying to better establish the show. I agree there needs to be more marketing, but you also had 2 major dealers absent (Treefrog and Hobby Bunker) if you wanted to see new stuff.

That said, I personally enjoy all shows as I am always on the lookout for something unique, old , new, rare, etc. I did attend the Westcoaster this year and while much smaller that years past and a long distance trek for me, I found a few goodies that made the trip worth it! To me, the hunt is half the fun.


TD

The WC and NJ are different, not comparable.

Despite the absence of TF and HB, you would not have found anything new here: it was the same old tired stuff.

Is it any wonder that collectors are not coming?

Since you and TF now seem a mainstay of his shows, how about putting some pressure on him to do something, anything.

 

[tdubel]

The WC and NJ are different, not comparable.

Despite the absence of TF and HB, you would not have found anything new here: it was the same old tired stuff.

Is it any wonder that collectors are not coming?

Since you and TF now seem a mainstay of his shows, how about putting some pressure on him to do something, anything.

I agree and it is an uphill battle. The internet and ebay have made it a "show day" everyday and that is hard to compete with!

TD

 

[jazzeum]

Well, we agree on that.

 

[Combat]

I'm not exactly sure how a show can maintain relevance in the age of the Internet. The same goes for things like hobby magazines. You get real time information from the Internet. Hard to remember now but in the days before the Internet information about any hobby could be obtained only by attending shows or subscribing to magazines that came out infrequently. I honestly can't see the point now of spending a weekend driving for hours to see nothing I can't already buy online and have delivered to my door. I have an affection for the old school methods, but modern reality has its advantages too. The only thing that might entice me to a show is a promise of some new disclosures or the presence of one of the actual manufacturers like Andy or John Jenkins. But even summaries and pictures of those show up here almost in real time. So do I want to go to the torture and expense of flying to places like Chicago for this information? I'm grateful for those that do and share the experience, but I don't anticipate doing it. And I think it is a mistake to equate the downfall of these shows with health of the hobby. I think that is more a function of the technology. The hobby seems to be booming if the prices are any indication.

 

[jazzeum]

Instead of toy soldiers, think of books. Same predicament. However, small booksellers are trying to find a niche, separate and apart from Amazon. It’s hard but doable. Just as with toy soldiers, there’s no substitute for looking over a book in person.

 

[theBaron]

I'm not exactly sure how a show can maintain relevance in the age of the Internet...

I was going to say that one thing you get from a show is face-to-face contact with other collectors. But I don't think that is as important to newer, younger people entering the hobby. Now, in the figure part of the hobby, it's still very important to everyone to go to a show. You display your work and compete for awards, as well as meet up live with other hobbyists. And in wargaming, you come out to play. So a World Expo or a Cold Wars can draw a couple thousand people. But you make a good point, when we focus on toy soldier collectors.

...The same goes for things like hobby magazines. You get real time information from the Internet...

Yeah, I still subscribe to several magazines, but as time goes by, I find myself asking why I do, because I can get the info from the Internet, and I have to store the hardcopy. I've already let one subscription lapse, and as I ponder starting it up again, I ask myself why. Subscribing to a magazine is an old habit, hard to change, but someone getting into the hobby today probably doesn't even think of a paper magazine.

Prost!
Brad

 

[tdubel]

All good points. I ask myself on the magazine too, although I do still like to read it and a hard copy forces me to enjoy it so to speak!

As to shows, my love for going is the conversation, the activity and the thrill of the hunt. But I have a very eclectic impulsive collection, so seeing something unique live usually draws me to it. The other thing I also like is actually seeing some new releases in the flesh b/c no matter what or who the manufacturer, when I see some things live, I like them and think, wow that looked different than I thought, on the flipside, I have also seen new releases where I am like I gotta have it, only to see it live and say UGH! For the show that sometimes works in your favor.

Of course, a lot of it is preference and what you make of it, but I do understand the frustration with this particular show as it is a small show and has gotten weaker over time and unless you find something you were looking for, it would feel wasted.

Speaking of MFCA and Chicago and Eastcoaster - all 3 are fairly large and attract many, I find them to be worth it. Chicago while it was getting stale, seemed to be on the rise last year and if you are going for the "activity" I find it worth it. If you are only going to purchase what you have already decided to purchase via internet, then any show would be boring IMO.

I also like a little of the "flea market" atmosphere of finding and haggling, that is fun too. And I also like the buying part where I find some stuff to resell down the line, you can find some good deals (I use this to repopulate my own troops)

Tom

 

[Warrior]

I agree and it is an uphill battle. The internet and ebay have made it a "show day" everyday and that is hard to compete with!

TD

Right; revenue streams like websites, Ebay and Amazon have for the most part taken the place of shows. Back in the late 1990's, every show was booming; now, not so much..............

 

[Warrior]

Instead of toy soldiers, think of books. Same predicament. However, small booksellers are trying to find a niche, separate and apart from Amazon. It’s hard but doable. Just as with toy soldiers, there’s no substitute for looking over a book in person.

Books; yikes, talk about a product that is in the toilet...............that said, I'm big on books geared towards artwork, so I agree with you, I won't buy an artwork book unless I can thumb through it first, no exceptions unless someone I know recommends it.

 

[Combat]

Books; yikes, talk about a product that is in the toilet...............that said, I'm big on books geared towards artwork, so I agree with you, I won't buy an artwork book unless I can thumb through it first, no exceptions unless someone I know recommends it.

There must be an enormous amount of disposable income out there. For example, I collect signed books from several independent book publishers. When they do a run of a popular author like Stephen King the books sell out in nanoseconds sometimes at $3-5K per copy. Maybe half a million in sales in a matter of minutes. Then those who buy them turn around and sell on ebay for even more. They have a massive conglomeration of car dealerships here in Central PA. Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Alfa Romeo, Maserati etc. I'm talking thousands of such new cars on their lots in the $50-150K range. This is not exactly Beverly Hills or even near any affluent location. The nearest major city is Harrisburg, PA. Who are all these thousands of people in a mostly middle class area that can afford to support all these car dealers? And when I get my car serviced there it is almost never less than $500 and usually a lot more. The biggest change in that regard that I notice is that almost every married couple under 50 that I know has both spouses working. When I was growing up that seemed to be the exception. Now the rule is two-income family with the wife making as much or more than the husband. So perhaps the good news for any hobby or luxury item is that there seems to be plenty of purchasing dollars in the till.

 

[nysoldiers]

There must be an enormous amount of disposable income out there. For example, I collect signed books from several independent book publishers. When they do a run of a popular author like Stephen King the books sell out in nanoseconds sometimes at $3-5K per copy. Maybe half a million in sales in a matter of minutes. Then those who buy them turn around and sell on ebay for even more. They have a massive conglomeration of car dealerships here in Central PA. Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Alfa Romeo, Maserati etc. I'm talking thousands of such new cars on their lots in the $50-150K range. This is not exactly Beverly Hills or even near any affluent location. The nearest major city is Harrisburg, PA. Who are all these thousands of people in a mostly middle class area that can afford to support all these car dealers? And when I get my car serviced there it is almost never less than $500 and usually a lot more. The biggest change in that regard that I notice is that almost every married couple under 50 that I know has both spouses working. When I was growing up that seemed to be the exception. Now the rule is two-income family with the wife making as much or more than the husband. So perhaps the good news for any hobby or luxury item is that there seems to be plenty of purchasing dollars in the till.

And that's why consumer debt is at an all time high!

 

[Louis Badolato]

I was at the show, and completely agree with what Brad and George are saying about this show and shows in general. Sorry I missed you Brad. The show was the worst I ever attended. It is the only time I ever went to a show and walked out without a single purchase.

Shows in general are going downhill, and its such a shame. To me, they were a chance not only to buy toy soldiers, but to see fellow collectors and dealers from around the area and the country, and get to know fellow collectors. My 12 year old son was the only person under the age of 30 I saw at the show. The hobby needs to attract some new blood. When I was a kid, I built models and played with toy soldiers. Collecting toy soldiers for me is nostalgic. Todays generation plays video games. Do kids still build models? Do they even know about toy soldiers? I suspect a lot fewer of this generation will have any kind of a nostalgic feeling for this hobby.:redface2: