Newbie needs help! (2 Viewers)

[twnhstnut]

Hello all,

My name is John and I am so new to collecting lead soldiers that I dont know if this posts belongs here or somewhere else on the forum. If it would be better suite somewhere else please forward it there or let me know where to go. Thanks.

I am a collector of many different types of antiques. My focus now is on the toys shown in the movie "A Christmas Story". I have all ready gotten many of the tin wind ups that are in the storefront window in the beginning of the movie.

While studying the wind ups I noticed a tank riding by what look to be toy lead soldiers. I will include a screen shot of that scene. I would very much like to know who made these and where they might be obtained. I have checked online auction sites but cant find anything with the details I see on screen which are:

-White strapping in an "X" formation on front of red coats
-soldiers are wearing pants not kilts
-they are in an advancing rifles up position
-their hats seem to have a slight bulge on the back near the bottom

I also see what appears to be a Scottish(?) bag piper which will probably be easier to find but the main marching soldiers are the ones I am most interested in finding. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated - John

 

[Napoleon1er]

Welcome to the forum and the hobby!

I am not an expert in early Britains, but I can tell you that these are pre-war Holocaust figures made by William Britain (also known as WBritain, Britains, and WBritains). While it initially looks like they are wearing pants, that is actually an illusion. Their white sporrans (pouches worn on the front of kilts) blend in with the snow to give that effect. I do not know the official set numbers, but they are charging Black Watch highlanders. You can find the same figures on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2961786210...jcftT-xT7m&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

The piper is from the same period, but probably from a parade set. I would have to check if he is Black Watch or another regiment.

 

[Napoleon1er]

Here he is — he is also Black Watch: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3258943567...jcftT-xT7m&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[twnhstnut]

Welcome to the forum and the hobby!

I am not an expert in early Britains, but I can tell you that these are pre-war Holocaust figures made by William Britain (also known as WBritain, Britains, and WBritains). While it initially looks like they are wearing pants, that is actually an illusion. Their white sporrans (pouches worn on the front of kilts) blend in with the snow to give that effect. I do not know the official set numbers, but they are charging Black Watch highlanders. You can find the same figures on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2961786210...jcftT-xT7m&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

The piper is from the same period, but probably from a parade set. I would have to check if he is Black Watch or another regiment.

Hi,

This is great information and more than I could have ever found on my own. I really appreciate your help and quick response. I am going to look for those soldiers now.
-John

 

[theBaron]

...these are pre-war Holocaust figures made by William Britain...

Do you love typeahead suggestions?

Prost!
Brad

 

[theBaron]

Looking from the piper to the running soldiers, I suspect that the soldiers are from Britain's smaller range, too. They look to be about 40mm, while the piper is 54mm.

Prost!
Brad

 

[twnhstnut]

Looking from the piper to the running soldiers, I suspect that the soldiers are from Britain's smaller range, too. They look to be about 40mm, while the piper is 54mm.

Prost!
Brad

Brad,

Does your post mean that the Black Watch running soldiers came in two sizes? If so, were the sizes determined by the year of Mfg? (I.E. pre war/post war). Most listings I see do not mention height at all but I can see what you mean about the size difference between the piper and runners.

-John

 

[Napoleon1er]

Do you love typeahead suggestions?

Prost!
Brad

I had not noticed this

For context to those who do not know me outside the forum, I did an MA in the history of the Holocaust, so autocorrect probably recognized the frequency with which I used that word.

PM
twnhstnut -- I meant to write "hollowcast"

 

[theBaron]

Brad,

Does your post mean that the Black Watch running soldiers came in two sizes? If so, were the sizes determined by the year of Mfg? (I.E. pre war/post war). Most listings I see do not mention height at all but I can see what you mean about the size difference between the piper and runners.

-John

Britains produced a range of figures in a smaller size, scaled for a smaller gauge of toy railroad, and in a simpler finish. I don't know specifically if they included a Black Watch set in that range, but looking at the photograph, it sure looks like the running soldiers are smaller than the piper. The piper appears to be further back in the photo from the camera, the running soldiers closer. I may be mistaken about how I see the photo, though. Others can confirm, or correct me if I'm about how I see the image.

Also, as far as the "Christmas Story" scene goes, I seem to recall that there were dimestore toy soldiers somewhere in that display window, too. But I'd have to go back and watch that scene over again to be sure.

Apart from the story and the performances in that movie, the set dressers and property masters deserve a lot of credit for how accurate and appropriate their props and scenery are for the time period. They did a great job!

Prost!
Brad

 

[paxtoysoldier]

They look like small Britains to me. You should keep searching or just buy some nice Scots advancing.
Paddy

 

[twnhstnut]

Britains produced a range of figures in a smaller size, scaled for a smaller gauge of toy railroad, and in a simpler finish. I don't know specifically if they included a Black Watch set in that range, but looking at the photograph, it sure looks like the running soldiers are smaller than the piper. The piper appears to be further back in the photo from the camera, the running soldiers closer. I may be mistaken about how I see the photo, though. Others can confirm, or correct me if I'm about how I see the image.

Also, as far as the "Christmas Story" scene goes, I seem to recall that there were dimestore toy soldiers somewhere in that display window, too. But I'd have to go back and watch that scene over again to be sure.

Apart from the story and the performances in that movie, the set dressers and property masters deserve a lot of credit for how accurate and appropriate their props and scenery are for the time period. They did a great job!

Prost!
Brad

I would be very interested in the dimestore soldiers too if they turn out to be in that movie. I honestly dont know what that term means but I am going to look at that window scene again to see if I see other soldiers. You are correct in stating that the set designers did a good job. I am in the process of locating most of the period items shown in the movie. That includes toys, kitchen items, HIGBEES window display stuf, ec...). Everything I have found so far has been period correct to around 1940. I have most of the wind up toys from HIGBEES but I want to include the lead soldiers as they are part of the display shown right behind a rolling wind up army tank (my still shots). I am going to look right now for other soldier type figures. - John

 

[theBaron]

I would be very interested in the dimestore soldiers too if they turn out to be in that movie. I honestly dont know what that term means but I am going to look at that window scene again to see if I see other soldiers...

"Dimestore" is a collector's term for the larger American toy soldiers that were made by companies like Barclay and Manoil, who were the most prolific among them, but also companies like Grey Iron (right here in PA). The term came about because the toy soldiers were sold in five-and-dime stores back in the Thirties and Forties. The most common subject were US soldiers, originally in tin hats and sculpted in the old uniforms from WWI. Later the styles changed to match the real thing, such as resculpting the masters to use the M1 helmet. There were figures depicting some foreign armies, and civilians, too. If you browse the forum, you should be able to find pictures that members have uploaded.

If you stick with the hobby, I recommend getting a copy of "Collecting Toy Soldiers" by the late Richard O'Brien. He released it through 4 editions, the second was an expanded version of the first, then the third and fourth were specifically for foreign-made and American-made toy soldiers, respectively. Even though the fourth edition was release over 20 years ago, O'Brien's books are good references for a lot of brands of toy soldiers, especially American brands from the Thirties, Forties, and Fifties, and subjects like homecast figures (ie, made from molds that people could buy and then cast them at home as a hobby), and some good general information on the large makers like Britains. There are specialty books dedicated to specific makers, too (a good number of books on Britain), but O'Brien's books are good, more general references for any toy soldier collector to have.

Prost!
Brad