Ney, did he really die at the Luxembourg Palace Gardens one a fateful day in Dec.1815 (1 Viewer)

[milhaud1813]

Michel Ney, the Waterloo debacle blamed on him. All but a few historians blame him for Waterloo. He did win Quatre Bras, Napoleon's memoirs and others state he was to keep the British from uniting with the Prussians...that he did. Not more aggressive there? He knew Wellington's stunt of hiding in terrain. At 6 pm, he had the British Center, rallying Bruyes brigade and adhoc cavalry and horse artillery. Yes the 10k cavalry charge, more effective than noted, very lowering in morale to the Allied line, only error not spiking the few guns they had.....now the fun part, high ranking Mason.....higher than most King's. Fake execution, his faithful wife never to claim the body, to America with Lefebvre-Desnouttes and the Lallemand brothers. Wandered S/E US, teaching, recognized by many veterans, wound from 1792 stood out. Drilled militia, fought fencing masters with sticks and disarmed them...master in mathematics, fluent in Greek, Latin, German, French and understood English. Kept a diary in code, Masonic, a mysterious man picked up after his death......designed the seal for Davidson College. Nah, the most popular Marshal in France, would not have any troops to shoot him, Louis XVIII stated, " I wish he had gotten away (he was given several chances), he is more trouble to deal with....he was to be tried by his fellow Marshal's, led by Moncey. Moncey paid for years of shame and loss of status for informing Louis, the Marshals were not qualified to judge him. Anyway, got a copy of Smoot's rare book on his life in America, a must read. Oddly, all of the Marshal's were stripped of their military titles, Ney family was allowed to keep he Dukedom of Elchingen, until 1969, the title was lost to lack of a male heir. Of interest is the term "Lost Generation", used by Stein and Hemingway was based on Hemingway staring at Ney's statue outside Luxembourg Garden, while frequenting his daily stop for hours at Closerie des Lilas. A truly fascinating man.

 

[Jack]

I have heard before that Ney escaped, but is it a widely held belief or just an interesting connection of odd coincidences?

 

[johnnybach]

After Napoleon was exiled in 1815, Ney was arrested on 3 August 1815 - and tried for treason. He was subsequently convicted and reported executed by firing squad in Paris - near Luxembourg Gardens on December 7th 1815. He reportedly refused to wear a blindfold and was allowed to give the command to fire himself. His body was reported as being buried at Pere Lachaise Cemetary in Paris.

Almost immediately following Ney's reported execution, rumours began to circulate regarding his escape - many of which, to this day remain difficult to prove or disprove. One such rumour had Ney faking his death and escaping to the United State. Some say Ney had Masonic ties - including to the Duke of Wellington who, some say, helped smuggle him away. According to proponents of this theory, soldiers of the firing squad put packets of blood over Ney's heart - and fired off blank charges at Ney. He was then smuggled to the US - and continued life as a school-teacher.

It is said that in January 1816, a man called Peter Stuart Ney arrived in Charleston, South Carolina - and promptly disappeared. In 1821 this man re-surfaced as a scool-master in Brownsville, South Carolina. Between 1822 and 1828, he appears in the records in several teaching posts in several South Carolina communities.

Peter Stuart Ney died on November 15th 1846 in Mochsville, North carolina aged 77. His last words were said to be "The Old Guard is dead - now let me die". On his gravestone at the Third Creek Prebyterian Church in Cleveland NC are the words. 'A Soldier of the French Revolution under Napoleon Bonepart'

You pays your money - and you takes your choice.

 

[Jack]

After Napoleon was exiled in 1815, Ney was arrested on 3 August 1815 - and tried for treason. He was subsequently convicted and reported executed by firing squad in Paris - near Luxembourg Gardens on December 7th 1815. He reportedly refused to wear a blindfold and was allowed to give the command to fire himself. His body was reported as being buried at Pere Lachaise Cemetary in Paris.

Almost immediately following Ney's reported execution, rumours began to circulate regarding his escape - many of which, to this day remain difficult to prove or disprove. One such rumour had Ney faking his death and escaping to the United State. Some say Ney had Masonic ties - including to the Duke of Wellington who, some say, helped smuggle him away. According to proponents of this theory, soldiers of the firing squad put packets of blood over Ney's heart - and fired off blank charges at Ney. He was then smuggled to the US - and continued life as a school-teacher.

It is said that in January 1816, a man called Peter Stuart Ney arrived in Charleston, South Carolina - and promptly disappeared. In 1821 this man re-surfaced as a scool-master in Brownsville, South Carolina. Between 1822 and 1828, he appears in the records in several teaching posts in several South Carolina communities.

Peter Stuart Ney died on November 15th 1846 in Mochsville, North carolina aged 77. His last words were said to be "The Old Guard is dead - now let me die". On his gravestone at the Third Creek Prebyterian Church in Cleveland NC are the words. 'A Soldier of the French Revolution under Napoleon Bonepart'

You pays your money - and you takes your choice.

It is a great story, but for me the biggest argument against it is not necessarily the need to believe in a rather complex conspiracy. It is the thought that a man who marched across Europe at the head of armies could retire quietly to a classroom for his final thirty years. Even Napoleon lived as the 'emperor' of St Helena. Surely Ney would have led a militia or sought some action somewhere, even the pale imitation of it. I've been in a classroom for twenty years and to be honest, the retreat from Moscow has its own appeal!

 

[Scott]

Thanks for the story.

Maybe he hangs out with Billy the Kid, Elvis, Fletcher Christian, JFK, Butch Cassidy, John Wilkes Booth and the legion of other historical characters who didn't really die when they did.

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Jack - (resisting the old joke of "Take me to Cuba")

I can well understand your feelings about the appeal of a soldier's life. One of my daughters became a teacher - and once told me that she felt sometimes as if she had never left school. From pupil - to student - to teacher.

However - my career was more like Ney. From professional soldier - to part-time soldier/part time student/full time student - degrees - and from there into the real World - where I ended up in Management Training - finishing off as a Managemnt Training Consultant for a well know large british Company.

I liked being a soldier as a younger man - but absolutely loved my later career in Management Training. Maybe that was because our "students" were adults, and I was "ready" for it then.

I have no particular axe to grind on whether Ney died in Paris - or USA - just setting out a few outline details of the case. But as a former soldier who went into "education" - I can really empathise with the theory that Ney might have found the more relaxed lifestyle of a teacher in the USA attractive in the later years of his life. I too doubt it though - but secretly rather hope he did. johnnybach

 

[Jack]

[I have no particular axe to grind on whether Ney died in Paris - or USA - just setting out a few outline details of the case. But as a former soldier who went into "education" - I can really empathise with the theory that Ney might have found the more relaxed lifestyle of a teacher in the USA attractive in the later years of his life. I too doubt it though - but secretly rather hope he did. johnnybach[/QUOTE]

He strkes me, based on a very, very basic knowledge of the period, as a man who believed in honour and glory - what we might call a true believer. He was very much the antithesis of a man like Talleyrande who appeared to worship at the altar of his own interests.

As a side note, it has always interested me that Napoleon made friends like Ney, perhaps more than any other comparable figure in history. He was quite, quite different from Hitler in many respects, but none more telling than in his capacity for human relationships.

Good to hear from you, though it is odd to have our dams full but England in drought!

Regards

Jack

 

[johnnybach]

Not just England Jack - I'm in France at the moment - and it's pretty dry here too. The pompiers (firemen) were out in force here recently, when we had a large grass fire which was quite alarming for a while. A discarded ciggarette end was the reported most likely cause - we hear. jb

 

[Martin Tabony]

A popular man gets executed, but his followers say he's alive. To this day people still believe it! Is it just because it's Easter?^&grin^&grin

Martin (save me some chocolate I'll be back on Sunday)

 

[trooper]

Simple to prove or disprove. Exhume the grave to see if there is a body in it, if not then there is a possibility that the legend is true. If there is a body check the DNA with Ney's descendants. Or could it be that we just like the idea of maybe? Trooper

 

[johnnybach]

Okay I'll put the choc from the compo ratpack near you shreddies on your pit - I'm off for a gonk! See you in the Naff - Taff - over.

 

[johnnybach]

I read that someone did exhume the grave in the USA- in the late 1800's - but didn't have the technology then to do what we can do now. Apparently they did find a body - and took a cast of the skull found there - which bore marks of sword cuts - but all that they took was later lost - so I'm not sure how feasable it would be to do that again now Trooper.

I simply don't know if anyone has ever done anything about it at the Paris grave - but considering who he was - would doubt whether anyone ever would get permission to do that in France, to someone who is still regarded as a hero! jb

 

[Martin Tabony]

Okay I'll put the choc from the compo ratpack near you shreddies on your pit - I'm off for a gonk! See you in the Naff - Taff - over.

Roger, out.

 

[johnnybach]

Zey seek him (Marshall Ney)

HERE! (Paris, France)

Zey seek him THERE ( North Carolina USA)

Zose darn Treefroggers seek him EVERYWHERE.

Is he in this one? Is he in that? And does he still have zat feathery Hat? jb.