NFL Hall of Fame (1 Viewer)

[tdubel]

I guess no one is every really happy when the finalists are announced as someone is always left out. BUT, how does Alan Faneca not make the Hall of Fame again with his numbers and all pro designations???? Is the position of Guard just that boring? There are always egregious oversights in any subjective balloting, but some things should be automatic like stats, he has the stats to get in and should be in. There was never any controversy around him and for the center for the Jets to be put in ahead of him is just wrong and that is taking nothing away from that guy.

It seems like in any of these hall of fame deals, there are glaring omissions, I particularly pay attention to the Pittsburgh ones of course b/c I am a fan:

A. Football - Faneca and Hines Ward (Love him or hate him, he has the numbers)

B. Baseball - Dave Parker - how many batting titles and gold gloves and world series rings on 3 different teams do you need to make the HOF?? All because he testified at a drug trial an NO, not he performance enhancing kind. The guy affected the game with his play and won world series for Pirates, Reds and A's. Now, unfortunately, he has Parkinsons' disease and time is escaping him. He really got screwed as compared to his counterparts of the era (JIm Rice is one that comes to mind)

C. Heck, let's even look at the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame - Black Sabbath is not in, even though they are the foundation of all modern metal bands, namely Metallica who is in the HOF.

End of day, none of these designations should be subjective, it should matter in the facts, but alas it does not.

I forgot to even go into Pete Rose, Roger Clemons and Barry Bonds. Look, Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb were not upstanding citizens, but they are in the HOF, reason is b/c back then, people were elected for what they did on the field. Take away the alleged performance enhancing drugs in the case of Clemons and Bonds - Clemons would still be the most dominating pitcher of his era and Bonds would still be the best pure hitter of his era, there is Zero doubt in that. Rose's performance on the baseball field had nothing to do with his gambling addiction. These are just flat out wrong.

TD

 

[Panzer ace]

Tom:

I will fly the Bay Area flag on some of your points. I think Tom Flores belongs in the Hall of Fame, his numbers are comparable, if not better than some other coaches who are in. Jeff Kent belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame and Roger Craig of the 49er's should also be in the Hall of Fame.

The one that I will vehemently disagree about is Bonds. He should never ever be allowed into the Hall of Fame.

-Jason

 

[jazzeum]

The NFL Hall seems to move slowly. I’m sure that Hines Ward will be elected at some point.

I don’t agree on Bonds and Clemons. Had Bonds not used steroids, I believe he would have been elected. Clemens is different. In his last few years with the Red Sox, his numbers were on the decline. He then moves to Toronto and has two 20 game win sessions. The conclusion is inescapable that he started to use steroids. Had he not used steroids, he would have been a marginal candidate, that is to say, on the bubble. They only have 3 years of eligibility left for the Hall and due to their small increase in votes this past year, it’s doubtful they will be elected, thank goodness.

Rose violated baseball’s cardinal rule. His exclusion is appropriate. Moreover, the Hall can't vote him in because he’s on MLB’s ineligible list. They couldn’t vote for him even if they wanted to do so.

 

[tdubel]

The NFL Hall seems to move slowly. I’m sure that Hines Ward will be elected at some point.

I don’t agree on Bonds and Clemons. Had Bonds not used steroids, I believe he would have been elected. Clemens is different. In his last few years with the Red Sox, his numbers were on the decline. He then moves to Toronto and has two 20 game win sessions. The conclusion is inescapable that he started to use steroids. Had he not used steroids, he would have been a marginal candidate, that is to say, on the bubble. They only have 3 years of eligibility left for the Hall and due to their small increase in votes this past year, it’s doubtful they will be elected, thank goodness.

Rose violated baseball’s cardinal rule. His exclusion is appropriate. Moreover, the Hall can't vote him in because he’s on MLB’s ineligible list. They couldn’t vote for him even if they wanted to do so.

Brad,
Everyone looks at Bonds and Clemons and that is ok. Rose is just a travesty, Ty Cobb was a terrible individual off of the field and it was well known in his day, never convicted, but it was well known, he is in b/c of his skills. MLB needs to right the wrong on Rose, he paid more than enough for his crime, he did the time, Charlie Hustle's actual on the field skills are what should be recognized and in today's PC world, you could even put his story of betting in there too to memorialize it or serve as a warning, or whatever.

The other points here are that sportswriters should not be the voters. It is ridiculous to think that a bias bunch of opinion hacks from different geographies are going to do the right thing in all cases, I call BS. HOF voters should be the peers, if you earn the respect of your peers, that says a lot and those players would be qualified voters. I base this on comments of some of the voters over the years, it is a broken system and as time moves on, there will be more and more egregious oversights. I almost want to put a bet out there that Tom Brady will not be a unanimous voted in HOF even though he is the greatest QB to ever play the game, there is no disputing that. He wins, he has racked of stats and he has won 6 SBS and been to 9. Yet mark my words, he will not be elected by 100% of the voters. I am sorry but there is no worthwhile explanation for that.

Additionally, I edit my previous post as I omitted what has been seemingly endlessly written about snubs to the Steelers HOF, I understand that they have a lot, but so what, the 70s they had some of the biggest superstars to ever play the game at that point - SNUBS - LC Greenwood, Donnie Shell, Andy Russell and Greg Lloyd (Arguable only in that he lost the only SB he appeared in). In all seriousness, there are a lot of docs and articles you can read over the years regarding the first 3 and I would even say (even outside of Pittsburgh), the consensus is that those 3 were snubbed plain and simple b/c the voters at the time said there were too many Steelers in and there was jealousy (much like what is happening today with the Patriots success). That is plain wrong, as a fan, do you get tired of one team winning when it is not your team, sure, but you should respect the heck out of the accomplishments the other team is doing.

I know a rant, but this subject really annoys the crap out of me, it is just plain wrong the way its done. And I am the first one to point out that Ray Lewis is in the HOF and for his performance on the field deservedly so, as a person do I respect him, NO, but as a player, yes, best MLB since Singletary and Lambert before him.

TD

 

[Panzer ace]

Brad/Tom:

Great posts on an interesting subject.

A player should not be penalized because he played on a great team. Again Roger Craig comes to mind. Yes, he played on the great 49er dynasties of the 80's and yes he played with Joe Montana and Jerry Rice etc. However that should not diminish the fact that he was a great player and innovated the running back position.

I will not bring up his Hall of Fame credentials/numbers. The one glaring thing that sticks out to me is that when the Hall of Fame selection committee voted on the NFL’s All-Decade Team for the 1980s, the four running backs were Eric Dickerson, Walter Payton and John Riggins — and Craig. The three others were enshrined in Canton years ago.

-Jason

 

[tdubel]

Brad/Tom:

Great posts on an interesting subject.

A player should not be penalized because he played on a great team. Again Roger Craig comes to mind. Yes, he played on the great 49er dynasties of the 80's and yes he played with Joe Montana and Jerry Rice etc. However that should not diminish the fact that he was a great player and innovated the running back position.

I will not bring up his Hall of Fame credentials/numbers. The one glaring thing that sticks out to me is that when the Hall of Fame selection committee voted on the NFL’s All-Decade Team for the 1980s, the four running backs were Eric Dickerson, Walter Payton and John Riggins — and Craig. The three others were enshrined in Canton years ago.

-Jason

Jason, great points and I believe all of our teams have a glaring one or two! It is just a ridiculous process.
TD