Not HECO but maybe Tin Toys or possibly of German origin (2 Viewers)

saxon lions

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Some time ago I started a thread Not HECO but Blatch to find out more more information on the origins of a tinplate Albatros I had purchased hoping it was HECO but found out it was made by an Alf Blatch. A brief visit to the thread will reveal that the model has now been fully integrated into my collection of tinplate models (mainly HECO) depicting the planes of the Saxon Aces of WWI.

I am now looking for information on another manufacturer of German tinplate WWI planes following the recent purchase of a tinplate Fokker DVII that I discovered on E-Bay nineteen minutes before the end of the auction. At first sight it looked very similar to HECO and it was only £20.00. Recently I discovered a picture believed to be of the Saxon ace Karl Schlegel with his DVII and had been agonizing on whether to add a second DVII to the collection. Thus I decided I had nothing to lose by placing a bid and twenty minutes later I was the owner of £20.00 tinplate Fokker.

I now had more time to peruse my winnings and quickly realized it was not the HECO model I was hoping for but had a few tell tale signs of a model from a manufacturer whose planes from previous experiences are familiar to me but whose name remains elusive. Previously I acquired two of these models the first a Fokker Eindecker I bought cheaply at militaria fair initially believing it to be HECO. I then identified an Albatros DIII by the same maker on E-Bay and paid over the odds for a poor model that was massive in comparison to my HECO models and I have also seen a Fokker Triplane and Pfalz DXII which appear to be from the same manufacturer.

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L-R Fokker Eindecker, Albatros DIII, Fokker DVII and Pfalz DXII

The planes appear quite old (1980s, 90s?) and have wings crafted in the same style as HECO but are larger appearing to be to 1/30 scale (HECO generally are slightly smaller than 1/32), although the Albatros appeared to be 1/24. Apart from the size the other main trait of them is pop riveting in places and the bizarre use of twisted wire for some or all the bracing wires similar to that originally used by Britains for their gun teams.

At least one of the models was described as by Tin Toys but some time ago I had heard from a now unknown source that there was a maker of tinplate models of WWI planes based in Germany and the vendor of my new DVII said he thought it was from Germany. So Tin Toys seems unlikely but does anyone know anymore about these planes and their manufacturer.

This story does have a happy ending as with the arrival of the DVII I liked a number of aspects of the model and decided to it could to be possible reduce it in size to fit in with collection whist keeping as much of the model as possible. The result finished as a late version DVIIF is very pleasing and once the painting is complete will take its place along side my HECO model now a DVII (OAW). On the back of this success I am looking at reinstating the Eindecker into the collection, but alas the Albatros some time ago rightly become a source of spare parts.
 
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The Fokker DVIIF

I have finally finished resizing two of my Tin Toys acquisitions the latest being the DVII.

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The first the newly acquired Fokker DVII I made into a DVIIF to complenent my HECO DVII which is now a DVII (OAW). Production of the DVII was through 3 Factorys Fokker, Albatros and the latter's eastern subsiduary OAW, which between them apparently created over 20 different variations

Here are pictures of the two DVIIs

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Re: Fokker EIV he return of an old Friend

With the success of the DVII resizing I turned my attention to the Fokker EIII which was one of my original purchaseswhich I had originally tiddied up but had dwarfed my HECO models here are pictures of the original purchase and the tiddied up model. With the acquisition of more HECO models I resigned myself to retite the oversized EIII but withe the success of the DVII project I determined to bring back an old friend into the collection

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As I hope one day to acquire the HECO EIII I determined the Tin Toys model would be altered to become a EIV a substantially different version of the eindecker which had three distinct advantages for me if achieved, first HECO never made the EIV, second as it was appreciably bigger than the EIII this reduced how much I had to reduce the size. Finally Immelmann had most of his victories on the EIV.

Thanks to help from Louis I was able to resize the new EIV to fit in with any future HECO EIII and my existing Pfalz EI which was the smallest of the Eindeckers. Here are photoes of the new Fokker EIV along side the smaller Pfalz EI.

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Two new 'Tin Toys' Acquisitions

I recently acquired a job lot of four tinplate WWI planes in need of some TLC. The Fokker Eindecker (top right) and the Bristol F2b Fighter (bottom left) are both clearly by the company I identified as Tin Toys although I would love to know the actual name if different. I hope to add both the Tin Toys models to the collection although the other models are only fit for spare parts if that.

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Modified Fokker EII

I have finally got round to modifying the Fokker Eindecker I acquired as part of my 'Tin Toys' job lot. Thanks to Louis I had the dimensions of the HECO Eindecker 8 in long 10.5 in wingspan and had discovered that Tin Toys cowlings were identical in size to HECO so the main problem was to reduce the length of the Tin Toys model by over an inch and the wingspan by nearly two inches. The latter was straight forward but reducing the length proved more of a problem. Another interesting discovery during the conversion was the dimensions of my 'Tin Toys' model appeared to be in imperial measurements not metric so maybe they are of British or American manufacture rather than German.

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The other problem I had was that I have so far been unable to discover a Saxon ace not already allocated a plane who flew a Fokker Eindecker so for the moment the discredited Ernst von Althaus currently has both the new Fokker EII and a Halberstadt DIII. I am hoping that further research will eventually enable me to reallocate one of the models to another early war Saxon ace.

I have now got models of all the first generation of WWI German fighters complete with Saxon aces which I combined in two photos fictitiously named KeK Grossenhain. KeK or fKampfeinsitzer Kommandos was the name given to Germany's first fighter units of 1916, and Grossenhain was the home of the Saxon Air Service. In reality none of the four aces ever served together in any unit.

Kek Grossenhain
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Saxon Aces l-r Erich Hahn (6), Max Immelmann (15), Ernst von Althaus (9) and Hans-Karl Müller (9).

L-r Fokker EIV (Tin Toys), Fokker EII (Tin Toys), Fokker DII (scratch built) and Pfalz EI (HECO conv)
 
Re: Modified Fokker EII

I have finally got round to modifying the Fokker Eindecker I acquired as part of my 'Tin Toys' job lot. Thanks to Louis I had the dimensions of the HECO Eindecker 8 in long 10.5 in wingspan and had discovered that Tin Toys cowlings were identical in size to HECO so the main problem was to reduce the length of the Tin Toys model by over an inch and the wingspan by nearly two inches. The latter was straight forward but reducing the length proved more of a problem. Another interesting discovery during the conversion was the dimensions of my 'Tin Toys' model appeared to be in imperial measurements not metric so maybe they are of British or American manufacture rather than German.

View attachment 258256 View attachment 258257

The other problem I had was that I have so far been unable to discover a Saxon ace not already allocated a plane who flew a Fokker Eindecker so for the moment the discredited Ernst von Althaus currently has both the new Fokker EII and a Halberstadt DIII. I am hoping that further research will eventually enable me to reallocate one of the models to another early war Saxon ace.

I have now got models of all the first generation of WWI German fighters complete with Saxon aces which I combined in two photos fictitiously named KeK Grossenhain. KeK or fKampfeinsitzer Kommandos was the name given to Germany's first fighter units of 1916, and Grossenhain was the home of the Saxon Air Service. In reality none of the four aces ever served together in any unit.

Kek Grossenhain
View attachment 258258 View attachment 258259
Saxon Aces l-r Erich Hahn (6), Max Immelmann (15), Ernst von Althaus (9) and Hans-Karl Müller (9).

L-r Fokker EIV (Tin Toys), Fokker EII (Tin Toys), Fokker DII (scratch built) and Pfalz EI (HECO conv)
Beautiful lineup of early war Fokker E's, Pfalz E, and the Fokker D II. Great job on building the D-II. -- Al
 
New SSW DIII

For some time Louis has been trying to find me a Heco SSW DIII, however I recently realised that if he was successful the plane may not be the version possibly used by a Saxon ace therefore I took the leap to make my own so when the Heco one turns up it can go inits rightful place in the Badalato Collection.

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Early version of SSW DIII in the highly conjectural markings of Werner Niethammer plus a picture of it with the Pfalz DVIII.
 
New Junkers DI

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My new Junkers DI made from corrugated aluminium and in the markings of a plane from Kampfgeschwader Sachsenburg 1919 with Paul Huettenrauch
 
Mark,

Those are terrific conversions!:salute:: You could have worked with Tony and Adele!
 
Hi Louis

I am afraid you give me too much credit although I hope that each plane I make I learn from and get a little better the big difference is my models are for some reason usually heavier. Every Heco I get I marvel at Tony's skill a few weeks ago I repainted my Fokker Triplane and for the first time realised not only had he included a row of flare cartridges behind the cockpit but the wheels even had tyre valve access holes I now know I was spoiled by the five models he made for me. Thank you again for your 'Brisfit' pictures without which my F2b project could not have happened.
 
It seems some lucky soul picked up a very interesting 'Tin Toys' Bleriot on Ebay for just $20 as 'Vintage Pressed Steel and Tin Toy Airplane' lot which will look great with a little TLC. I have never seen this model before and agonised over whether to put in a bid but postage and customs meant it would have cost over £100 to get it across the 'pond' and it did not quite fit in with my collection.

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I bought a similar plane years ago. Cut off everything weird (tail wheel, wires, etc); used a Dremel tool to grind off the rough edges, painted the fabric a linen color with the wood brown, and added roundals. All an all it came out pretty good . . . pretty much in scale, too! Have fun!

Bosun Al
 
Tin Toys - Rumpler CI - Hans Hoyer and Ernst Wiele

Hi Bosun Al - perhaps if you still have the model you could post a picture on the thread

You are right about what can be achieved with a dremel and thanks to mine I have just finished my consolation for not getting the Bleriot. The discipline of keeping to my theme of the Saxon Army 1871 to 1918, latterly expanded to include the WWI aces who originally served in that army and their planes has over the years the served me well and kept my collection to a manageable level as most additions are researched and then planned. However, occasionally one spots a model that just has to be added to the collection which sets in motion a serious research program to see how this can be achieved whilst maintaining the theme.

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So it was when I spotted this amazing model of what was clearly an early war German C Type as part of a job lot of two models (the other being a naff allied fighter) both supposedly from Germany. Although I had been considering adding another two seater to my collection I had envisioned this would probably be either a Hanover CLII or Roland CII but intrigued by this model I immediately set about Identifying the make of plane depicted. Sadly my ignorance on German two seaters caused me to misidentify it it as probably a Rumpler CI and unfotunately only realised it was probably supposed to be an Albatros CI after starting modifications. My wrong identification had two consequences first the Rumpler was a better plane and served at the Front from 1915 till early 1918. Over two thousand were built and it was even used as an escort fighter. Better still two of the Saxon aces still to be allocated a model Hans Hoyer (8 vics) and Ernst Wiehle (6) had operated the type before becoming fighter pilots. Conversely, although the two types were similar my misidentification meant appreciably more (unnecessary?) work.


On receipt of the models the naff allied fighter had a 'Made in China' sticker (not sure when the German Lander of China was created) but that model was quickly dispatched to the local charity shop. The German biplane looked very much like a Tin Toys model which with some (dremel) work would fit perfectly in the collection and now finished is one of my favourite pieces. Hope you like!

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Mark,

Another tremendous conversion, the biplane and pilots look terrific! :salute::
 
Hi Saxon Lion

like your conversions, did you try german ebay yet? I check on it rather frequently, sometimes I find WW1 planes which offer at least good potential. Some of the dealers there seem to have rather good links to China as well. Today the search words "Doppeldecker Blech" will produce 211 entries with WW1 area planes + London buses;)
 
Hi Wolfgang

Yes indeed I do occasionally check the German Ebay and yes I too was surprised at how many double decker buses appeared when inserting 'doppledecker'. Recently I was lucky enough to acquire another (my final) 'Tin Toys' Foker DVII which I hope to tidy up and finish as an Albatros manufactured variant. The dealer informed me he acquired it as part of a job lot from a German museum and he would keep in touch to let me know if acquired any more similar models. It would be great to finally find out the actual name of the company that creates these nice models and if they are indeed a German company.
 
Hi Wolfgang

Yes indeed I do occasionally check the German Ebay and yes I too was surprised at how many double decker buses appeared when inserting 'doppledecker'. Recently I was lucky enough to acquire another (my final) 'Tin Toys' Foker DVII which I hope to tidy up and finish as an Albatros manufactured variant. The dealer informed me he acquired it as part of a job lot from a German museum and he would keep in touch to let me know if acquired any more similar models. It would be great to finally find out the actual name of the company that creates these nice models and if they are indeed a German company.

Found this one:
https://vianmo.com/blechmodell-blechflugzeug-modellflugzeug-doppeldecker-flugzeug-eisen-antik-stil_2
Could be worked into a nice Fokker D.VI (?) or V33. Tempted to buy one for myself - he seems to have plenty.
Value for money appears to be ok.:salute::
 
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Hi Wolfgang UK

Although I do not think the model is by 'Tin Toys' and probably originates from China, some years ago I did indeed purchase one of these models. The model is in fact a reasonably accurate rendition of a Siemens Schuckert DI which was in turn a German copy of the successful French Nieuport 17 fighter. The only noticeable differences being the SSW DI' had a cut away cowling, and its engine required a larger propeller which in turn needed an enlarged undercarriage to give adequate clearance from the ground.

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SSW DI
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Nieuport 17 in German markings

Sadly for me the model is to an appreciably larger scale to the HECO planes that were and are the mainstay of my collection (if you have not seen it I recommend the Heco Tinplate Models thread), and at the time I was completely inexperienced and incapable of making the modifications needed to make it fit in with these models so passed the model on. Subsequently, I was lucky enough to come across a reasonably priced HECO Nieuport 17 which I modified to a SSW DI (see posts 1317 and 1318 on the Heco thread).


Other than the size issue I think that the model lends itself well to a tidy up, embellishment and repaint (I hate manufacturers producing all German WWI planes in red) and would make a nice addition to your collection. The same manufacturer also made / makes the Nieuport 17 and SPAD XIII in the same scale.
 
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Interestingly another 'Tin Toys' Bleriot has appeared on Ebay for just $7 as '6" Metal Monoplane Mono-wing Airplane Model Blue' lot
 

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