Operation Northwind and new BBG Sets (2 Viewers)

PolarBear

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With the release of the terrifc new K&C BBG figures I became curious about the presence of German ski and mountain troops and the BoB. My research would suggest that these new figures are meant to represent the Second Battle of the Bulge, a new German offensive called Operation Nord(North) Wind that took place from January 5-25th, 1945 in the Alsace region of France rather then the Adrennes where the first BoB occured in December 44. The only mountain troops taking part in any of the Bulge campaigns was the 6th SS Mountain Division "Nord" that participated in Operation Nordwind in the Alsace region in early 1945. So if anyone is doing a diorama with these new figures, they belong in that setting rather than the Ardennes. This caveat would likely apply as well to the recent Honour Bound ski troops. Here is a brief summary of the book by Charles Whiting called THE OTHER BATTLE OF THE BULGE:

"In December 1944, while the Americans were trying to stem the German offensive in the Belgian Ardennes, Hitler launched another major offensive in France aimed at recapturing Alsace-Lorraine. This "second Battle of the Bulge," in the winter of 1944-45, lasted a month longer than the first, cost the lives of 16,000 Americans and twice that number of French soldiers serving under U.S. command. Whiting convincingly argues that it was a more significant battle than the Ardennes "Bulge" because it threatened to break up the Western alliance and plunge France into political anarchy. The Supreme Allied Commander, General Eisenhower, had severe problems maintaining the "Bulge" and Alsace fronts at the same time, compounded by his lack of confidence in General Jacob Devers, whose combined U.S.-French army was responsible for the latter sector. The book shows how Devers won Ike's gratitude for his annihilating counterattack against the German 19th Army. Whiting ( Bloody Aachen ) expertly describes the overall strategy of the battle and its political overtones and provides as well colorful vignettes of small-unit combat and the exploits of individual GIs, such as Audie Murphy, who saved the day in local clashes.
Book Description
Operation Northwind, planned by the Fuhrer himself, hurled eight German divisions, three of them S.S., against the thinly held American line in the Alsace-Lorraine region.
Few except those who fought it know anything about this second Battle of the Bulge, which cost the Americans and their French comrades-in-arms nearly as many casualties and almost destroyed the alliance. ?Because Eisenhower determined to evacuate Strasbourg, for a few days, while American troops fought for their lives in the snow-bound hills of Alsace-Lorraine, it looked as if the Franco-American alliance might be broken apart and France thrown into something akin to revolution.?"

Information about the German Mountian troops themselves and their campaigns may be found in the Osprey Men At Arms book pictured below.
I have also included a photo of the real "Nord" division in action:
Anyone else with more info?

Randy
 

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Hi Randy,

You have provided some excellent and insightful information. Thanks for posting it!

Warmest personal regards,

Pat
 
Thanks Pat.

I hope others with interest in this topic will chime in with their info. Would love to know Andy's take on this. The K&C brochure that Pete posted yesterday only talks about the 1st BoB. See Pete's K&C post BBG ON THE WAY for the flyer.

Randy
 
One word of caution on books written by Charles Whiting. The reviews of some of his work, as posted on Amazon, have been less than laudatory and some have questioned his scholarship. I first came across his name when thinking about buying a book he wrote regarding the role of the British Army in the Battle of the Bulge. However, after reading the review of the book, I took a pasadena. I have never read any of his works so I'm just relying on what others who have read them have said.
 
Brad

According to the Harvard Library catalog, the majority of books on Operation Nordwind have been published by the French, most recently in 2006. There is an offcial US Army History referenced at the site below, but it is about the American rather than the German forces. Here is the site and book jacket. BTW Harvard lists 50+ books on WWII by Whiting. I did see the Amazon comments but cannot verify or refute them either, since I have not read his work. I was stunned that Whiting's book on the Second Battle of the Bulge sells for over $170 used!

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/brochures/ardennes/aral.htm
 

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Randy,

I agree with you that I cannot say his work is bad or good since I have also not read his works. However, and you knew there is a however coming when a lawyer is involved, when you see the number of adverse comments, forewarned is forearmed.
 
Brad

Lawyers-yes I know all about them! Before we retired my wife was the librarian for a Syracuse law firm.

LOL

Randy
 
Randy is correct about this. Here's what I said on another forum concerning this:

"Despite implied marketing to the contrary, the only mountain/ski/gebirgsjager division to see action in the Battle of the Bulge was actually 6th SS Nord at the very end after the main fighting was over, and they would’ve dropped most of their heavy packs and ice picks, so BBG 13 really wouldn’t be accurate for the Ardennes. They’d be much better stationed in occupied Norway, possibly Italy, and especially the Eastern Front. The second guy from the right in BBG14 with the camo helmet also wouldn’t work for SS Nord in the Bulge because of his Wehrmacht marsh-pattern camo pants."
 
Randy is correct about this. Here's what I said on another forum concerning this:

"Despite implied marketing to the contrary, the only mountain/ski/gebirgsjager division to see action in the Battle of the Bulge was actually 6th SS Nord at the very end after the main fighting was over, and they would’ve dropped most of their heavy packs and ice picks, so BBG 13 really wouldn’t be accurate for the Ardennes. They’d be much better stationed in occupied Norway, possibly Italy, and especially the Eastern Front. The second guy from the right in BBG14 with the camo helmet also wouldn’t work for SS Nord in the Bulge because of his Wehrmacht marsh-pattern camo pants."

You're right CS. K&C do continually mix and match wehrmacht and SS and italian camouflage patterns. It's been mentioned countless times before but it continues to happen which means it must be an artistic decision or deliberate mistake.
I find it kind of bugs me too to be honest.
 
Now, let me see if I understand this. We like these new sets but don't like them because they've classified as "BBG." So, in essence it's a labeling or categorization problem (although calling it a problem is giving it more weight than it deserves). In the Dispatches, King and Country said, with reference to the first set, "Two superb German infantry mounted on skis heading into battle...could be 'The Ardennes'...could be the frozen wastes of the 'Eastern Front'...the choice is yours." It, therefore, doesn't seem that it's necessarily BBG.

As precedent, if you look at the WS series, not everything in there is Waffen SS, that's just a label that Andy uses. For example, there are Grossdeutschland in there (WS 38 through WS 40), Hitler Jugend (WS 33) and Rommel (WS 22), not to mention Winter Germans.

If it were up to me, I wouldn't have classified them as BBG but I don't think we should get hung up on labels or let the label distract from our enjoyment of the sets.
 
Now, let me see if I understand this. We like these new sets but don't like them because they've classified as "BBG." So, in essence it's a labeling or categorization problem (although calling it a problem is giving it more weight than it deserves). In the Dispatches, King and Country said, with reference to the first set, "Two superb German infantry mounted on skis heading into battle...could be 'The Ardennes'...could be the frozen wastes of the 'Eastern Front'...the choice is yours." It, therefore, doesn't seem that it's necessarily BBG.

As precedent, if you look at the WS series, not everything in there is Waffen SS, that's just a label that Andy uses. For example, there are Grossdeutschland in there (WS 38 through WS 40), Hitler Jugend (WS 33) and Rommel (WS 22), not to mention Winter Germans.

If it were up to me, I wouldn't have classified them as BBG but I don't think we should get hung up on labels or let the label distract from our enjoyment of the sets.


I am glad you brought this up Brad.I thought i'd read somewhere that they could be used as Eastern front troops,but i didn't want to say in case i was wrong!:rolleyes:.I must say that i thought they looked like Eastern front to me,the chaps on Ski's etc.Even more so the radio guy set,it looks like its straight out of the Stalingrad cauldron to me.Struggling through atrocious conditions with no real hope of rescue.Its an image from a hundred different History docu's.

Rob
 
I'm sure it is a case of Andy using his artistic lisence. He has commented in the past that he produces the figures that he likes. It's like the presence of an M3A1 Scout Car in the BBA series. Historically it raises a big "Say What???" but it's a cute model. It was produced because Andy wanted to do one, not because there were any M3A1 Scout Cars in USAETO service in late 1944.

Interstingly, there might have been M3A1 Scout Cars in the Free French army, so one COULD do a Northwind diorama with the Scout Car versus the German mountain troops. Andy has done some other Seventh Army units by accident. The tank from the Limited Edition is marked as being from the 14th Armored Division - this was from Patch's Seventh Army, not Patton's Third Army. Several sets from the DD-series are carrying the patch of the 3rd Infantry Div, which was another Seventh Army unit that was nowhere near Normandy.

We buy K&C because they are the best sculpted, painted and posed model figures. Andy is more artist than historian, so I give him SOME slack in his research. K&C is his company and Andy is free to make the figures he likes. As the customer, I am free to purchase or not purchase.

Gary
 
The problem is not with the figures, rather it is with the 2 page color K&C flyer that displays all of the figures and yet is labeled Battle of the Bulge and only discusses the Ardennes Campaign. I just wanted to make sure that folks used the figures accurately if displaying them in a diorama and you guys do make some eye-popping scenes (Kevin Elliott comes to mind). Before placing my K&Cs in a dio I try to make sure they would be in a particular place at a particular time. So, for example, the 3rd Infantry Division figures from the DD sets have been placed in a North African diorama where they did participate in 42/43. They are wearing the correct uniform for that campaign: 1941 Parsons jacket and OD trousers. I used the DD correspondent figure as Ernie Pyle who reported on the North African front. The DD photographer is there too taking a snapshot for Yank!
As far as artwork goes K&C is unequaled in my book. I just like to have the models in the right pew so to speak.
History does matter. As Santayana said: "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Randy
 
I was planning to use the new figures as rebel alliance troopers on the Hoth Ice planet. They could be out looking for Han Solo and Luke Skywalker shortly before the Imperial assault using AT At and X wing fighters.
Regards
Damian
 
Damian

What Star Wars vehicle will you convert the Raupen Schlepper to? Perhaps Alex Prieto can do a retrofit for you!

Randy
 
Randy
On second thoughts, I am not sure if the cammo is correct for Hoth
Regards
Damian:):)
 
Can someone tell me what 'correct' camo looks like when you're fighting in the final stages of a war you are losing, and suffering from not only god awful weather conditions, but severe manpower and supply shortages? The fact that Andy and the guys at K+C choose to mix and match camo patterns - be it for reasons of making the figure sets more aesthetically interesting, or as a nod to some of the realities of war - matters not a jot as far as I'm concerned. Having said that, I actually like the figures that way, for both of the reasons stated above.

As an aside - the ski cap I'm wearing in my avatar has an army eagle above a Waffen SS metal skull, both on the front - not 'correct', but what the officer Richard Schulze was wearing in the field when the photo, on which the uniform was based, was taken - incidentally, 1944/45 - :)
 
Can someone tell me what 'correct' camo looks like when you're fighting in the final stages of a war you are losing, and suffering from not only god awful weather conditions, but severe manpower and supply shortages? The fact that Andy and the guys at K+C choose to mix and match camo patterns - be it for reasons of making the figure sets more aesthetically interesting, or as a nod to some of the realities of war - matters not a jot as far as I'm concerned. Having said that, I actually like the figures that way, for both of the reasons stated above.

As an aside - the ski cap I'm wearing in my avatar has an army eagle above a Waffen SS metal skull, both on the front - not 'correct', but what the officer Richard Schulze was wearing in the field when the photo, on which the uniform was based, was taken - incidentally, 1944/45 - :)

I agree 100% The mixed uniforms give each soldier a specific personality and it shows that there not as mighty as they used to be.
 

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