Paint variations ? (1 Viewer)

[Yosmanos]

To breathe life into the Imperial forum I pose a question:

What known paint variations are out there that may interest collectors. This is aside from any DIY paint retouching. Legitimate, issued and sold by Imperial paint variations only please.
I guess the Gordons Heirloom series is the most "famous" paint variation of HS1 and HS2.
In my own collection I have a special painting of set 73 which was painted as Light Infantry rather than Line infantry in the Crimean series. I also have a set of Rorke's drift personality figures with the figure pointing (dont know his name) in a red 24th foot jacket instead of blue. I also have a set of Gordons Napoleonic colour party without a red stripe on their legs.
Imperial is well known for meticulous attention to detail so I'm picking that the variants are deliberate special runs rather than errors.
I'd be interested in fellow treefrogger's views.

Mark

 

[dkelly]

Interesting thread. Drum should chime in on this because he has every set they have ever made. I have a special set of #76 painted as Russian Light Infantry. I also have an unusual version of 51A, Begal Lancer, with a lighter turban. These were special sets Imperial made, not alterations. I also have HS1, the Gordon Highlanders set.

 

[Drum]

There have been a few variations in paint. I guess the real question is to decide what sort of variations are worthy of note.

The "produced variations" are those variations that were actually produced in some quantity greater than a few sets. These would include the Gordon sets of the Heirloom Series and an errant series of Bengal cavalry that were produced for that toy soldier shop in Highland Falls, NY. It is believed that less than a dozen of each Heirloom set was produced as Gordon Highlanders. It is unknown how many sets of the unique Bengals were produced. The Bengals are a good deal more rare than their Heirloom variations, of that I am sure.

(there are threads on this subforum somewhere that explores each of these above-mentioned "production variations")

There are also what I would call "artistic variations" that cover the more random differences between figures in different sets. For example, there are a number of different designs for many of the Town and Around figures, with individual clothing articles painted with different patterns or colors. We have collected perhaps 3-4 versions of some of the female figures' dresses, each a masterwork in and of themselves. Some fellas have different color vests or hats, etc., depending on when they were made, or by which employee at Imperial. That said, the vast majority of the Town and Around figures show little or no variation and certainly set to set variations in military sets are impossibly rare.

Finally, the Cowes, David in particular, are so darn polite and friendly that they have had a difficult time saying no in the past to those collector friends who have requested a specific variation on a production set. An example of this is the Russian light infantry set recently produced by Imperial for a collector in Italy I seem to recall. In such cases, these variations have occasionally been added to the catalog and produced in general. Not sure how many of the new Light Infantry sets were made.

I hope this helps. If y'all want to discuss these variations in more detail here, we can surely do that. But generally speaking, the above is what I am aware of as far as Imperial produced variations.

Cheers,
D

 

[Yosmanos]

I have come across another couple of variations that may be of interest to fellow Imperial collectors. Firstly in the American Civil War series, I've found two distinct varieties of the a11 Butternut Infantry set. In one (featured on the coloured catalogue cards put out by Imperial - BtW I can post photos of those cards if anyone is interested) the infantry have brown tunics and light blue trousers. I recently acquired a set with brown tunics and brown trousers. Could have been an earlier version, I notice on Drum's photos that he has 5 with brown trousers and one with blue. I'm not sure if these sets were blended (ie they came mixed like that) or homogenous. My 2 sets were either one or the other variety. Happy to post some photos.

Second and less interesting perhaps was a variety of box for the palm trees in the Sudan range. I have a short squat box, and recently acquired a set in a long flat box. Both are white but have different labels on them.


Also another curiosity for collectors : I found in some early sets a small Imperial-produced tear-off coupon asking the purchaser to mail Imperial Productions for more info on their catalogue. Probably an early marketing effort from Imperial. The coupon was signed by the painter who painted the set. Again, photos can be provided if theres any interest.

M

 

[ac5112]

As Drum says, it's all down to individual painters at the time - I showed Kay one of the figures that I had that had one of those cards with her signature on it but she immediately stated that it certainly wasn't her handiwork due to "overwide"stripes on the tartan....particular or what!
If the photos upload (I apologise for the poor quality but I only have them for reference!) they'll show variations on the butternut scheme with one set as offered on ebay having all of them in blue trousers....my own set is all brown. I have two General Custer's with one horse having a white "blaze" on it's nose and the other doesn't so there are possibly many subtle variations out there! It just adds to the uniqueness of the product.
Nice to see some activity again on the Imperial threads....
One day when I win the lottery I might also make it stateside to a model soldier show..........sigh.......

 

[Drum]

Hi folks,
Sorry for the long absence again. It has been a time of flux here. Buying and selling houses, moving metric tons of stuff across state lines.
It has been an interesting year or so.

Alas, one of the events involved moving one of our huge Imperial display cabinets and after cataloging the damage, I find myself here to see about what it will take to replace some of the pieces that suffered damage. Ugh. Anyway... this thread chimes one of my favorite themes in collecting the masterpieces of a single maker.

To add to the above on variations in the ACW sets from Imperial, first, I have seen quite a variety of mixing and matching among pants and tunic colors (and bed roll colors for that matter) among the butternut infantry sets. I suspect that A) there was an effort to recreate the random non-uniformity that existed among the ranks of the Confederate troops and/or B) that these were produced during Imperial's heyday as an employer of multiple painters, box fillers. There appears to be no rhyme or reason to the variations that exist.

Secondly, there was a switch in paint colors for the greatcoats of the Union troops about halfway through the ACW production. Initial runs of these troops were painted with a lighter blue color that did not appeal so much to the Cowes. Later, a darker, almost black paint color was adopted for use on the remainder of the line. The contrast between the two colors is quite noticeable side by side. Some of the earlier produced ACW sets have been seen in both colors... while the later issues are only in the darker color.


Finally, in addition to the variant sets of Heirloom sets (Gordons and Camerons) the same toy store in upstate NY created a paint deviation in a small run of set 50, the Bengals. The details of this variation are detailed somewhere else in this sub-forum

Hope this helps.

 

[churchmouse1]

I have multiple sets of the marching Russian light infantry in the Crimean War series, and some have gold trim on their collars and epaulets, and some do not. I just found that interesting, and apropos of the thread.

Dave

 

[Drum]

Hey Dave,
Would love to see a few pics.
I examined the sets in our collection for that deviation and only saw gold trim on the officers.
Perhaps that was a miscue.
I suspect that these sets were originally made during the fullest flurry of Imperial's heyday, when they actually had non-related employees doing some of their painting (under the strictest sort of supervision from Kay, of course).
One of the marching Russians in our set managed to sneak out of New Zealand without ever getting gold paint for his helmet.

I guess it would make sense to distinguish between known paint variations (i.e. multiple sets with intended differences in paint scheme) and the rare errors that pop up in Imperial sets, primarily in sets made during the late 80's/early 90's.

The former, one might strive to add to a "complete" collection, whereas the latter would be simply a novelty of Human hand production.

 

[churchmouse1]

If I can ever learn how to take a decent picture, I will post some.

Dave

 

[churchmouse1]

While I have no pictures yet, I noticed something this weekend. I bought an add on set of the Crimean Russian Line Infantry, and I noticed that one of the soldiers had the same gold piping on his collar as the Russian Light Infantry. I'm guessing the gold piping indicates an NCO, and that I just happened to purchase one add on Light Infantry set which happened to include all NCOs. This is just a guess. Which means some collectors are short on Russian Light Infantry NCOs. I would be willing to trade, but my Russians need the extra discipline. :tongue:

Yours,
Dave