Panzer III Commander Uniform Color (1 Viewer)

[katana]

I believe the correct color for a Panzer Commanders uniform should be black with pink Waffenfarb! The photos of the Panzerkampfwagen III all show the Commander in a grey uniform worn by Stug crew; which belonged to the Artillery not the Panzer Divisions. Will First Legion provide Panzer crew with the correct uniform color? Regards

 

[FirstLegion]

I believe the correct color for a Panzer Commanders uniform should be black with pink Waffenfarb! The photos of the Panzerkampfwagen III all show the Commander in a grey uniform worn by Stug crew; which belonged to the Artillery not the Panzer Divisions. Will First Legion provide Panzer crew with the correct uniform color? Regards

Yes, you are correct about the coloring, black for panzer Troops and gray for stugs. However, our Panzer III figure is black. The gray on them is the highlights from the painting (i.e. black is highlighted with gray) and the color difference between our stug crew and our panzer III crew figure is strikingly different.

See below....

Panzer Commander

Stug Figures

So we have done them in the right colors. Of course these are images, so perhaps those who have the vehicles and figures in person can comment further should they feel like it.

Best,

Matt

 

[Gebhard]

I believe the correct color for a Panzer Commanders uniform should be black with pink Waffenfarb! The photos of the Panzerkampfwagen III all show the Commander in a grey uniform worn by Stug crew; which belonged to the Artillery not the Panzer Divisions. Will First Legion provide Panzer crew with the correct uniform color? Regards

I think you may like to take a closer look as the Commander for the PZIII is wearing black with pink Waffenfarbe as is correct .
Hope these pictures can help , Maybe it's the painting of the wear on the uniform that's throwing you off .Please note the difference between the Panzer Commander(black) and the Panzer Grenadiere(grey) All the best Gebhard

 

[graycap]

I think to be precise the waffenfarbwe for the crewman of the 24th Panzer PzKw III actually should be yellow. The 24th was formed from the Whermacht's last cavalry divison and to commemorate this fact the division was granted the honour to continue to use the yellow cavalry waffenfarbe. The divison aslo continued to use cavalry ranks e.g. "Rittmeister" instead of "Hauptman".

 

[Mitch]

Graycap...

I just saw this and was going to comment but, I believe you are correct and rather than panzer pink it was indeed yellow!!!!!!
Mitch

 

[fmethorst]

I think to be precise the waffenfarbwe for the crewman of the 24th Panzer PzKw III actually should be yellow. The 24th was formed from the Whermacht's last cavalry divison and to commemorate this fact the division was granted the honour to continue to use the yellow cavalry waffenfarbe. The divison aslo continued to use cavalry ranks e.g. "Rittmeister" instead of "Hauptman".

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that.

Here is a breakdown of the various colors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffenfarbe#Some_Waffenfarben_used_by_the_Wehrmacht_Heer_1935-45

 

[Mitch]

FL collectors and, as I now have the Stalingrad range I would include myself in that genre. I think seeing many more posts have been removed again today that the point is being missed about slating a firm and their products for the sake of it and, applying proper founded critique of a product. Now, I do not really know enough about other ranges apart from WWII but, I have found a number of points about troops and AFV's from these releases. Now, the FL thread is the correct place IMO to raise these issues as it would be no use talking about them in any other section.

I am surprised at some responses when commenting on sets which, cost a lot of money and should be right at least for that point alone.

I am willing to, as I have been approached by PM to explain these, but, hope that posters are mature enough to see the difference between the two viewpoints
Mitch

 

[fmethorst]

One of the reasons I collect First Legion is because I think they do a very good job researching their subject matter. If errors are discovered or suspected then I definitely believe that this is the correct place to discuss them.

In some cases a suspected error may be proven to not be an error. In other cases there may be a level of uncertainty and disagreement. Lastly there may be an actual error in which case we are all the wiser. I can't see how discussion in a bad thing.

I realize that on many of the other manufacturer's sections discussion regarding historical accuracy is often unwelcome (and the cause of much contention) as this isn't a priority for many collectors but I don't think this applies to the type of collector drawn towards First Legion. I believe a product as well researched and executed as First Legion's and sold at the higher price point should be able to stand up to the scrutiny.

 

[Mitch]

Frank...

Thank you. I think you put it far better than I
Mitch

 

[FirstLegion]

I think to be precise the waffenfarbwe for the crewman of the 24th Panzer PzKw III actually should be yellow. The 24th was formed from the Whermacht's last cavalry divison and to commemorate this fact the division was granted the honour to continue to use the yellow cavalry waffenfarbe. The divison aslo continued to use cavalry ranks e.g. "Rittmeister" instead of "Hauptman".

You are absolutely correct about this. This one is entirely my fault as we knew about the lineage as a cavalry division and the yellow waffenfarbe, but our artist did the master in pink. I was supposed to have this changed to yellow during the production, but I totally forgot and it got produced without the correction. So this one wasn't a research issue, we were fully aware of it, this one was an execution issue on my part. It simply got lost in the millions of details i keep in my head on a regular basis. My partner does all of our uniform research and does a fantastic job with it and in this case I let him down.

 

[Gebhard]

I remember we had this discussion when First Legion put out the SdKfz 232 8 Rad Schwerer Panzerspähwagen . I was in agreement that the piping on the Armored reconnaissance units should be Golden Yellow , I was not aware that the entire 24th wore G Yellow Waffenfarbe . Could I ask from what reference book this info was taken ? I would be interested in reading more as I'm not really big on Wikipedia . This is good info thanks Greycap and I'm always looking to learn something new . Here is an original picture a crew from the 24th Panzer its hard to tell from the photo looks pink to me All the best Gebhard

 

[Mitch]

Gebhard...

All units in the division wore the yellow waffenfarbe. All uniform , insignia from field caps to peaked caps shoulder straps etc were in the cavalry's yellow waffenfarbe not just the reconn units which regulations allowed to be yellow. This division was unique in that it also adopted by the tank crewmen.

This information can be found in the basic Osprey titles on german uniform and tank crews and can be found in many panzer unit books (I can list but its easier on the web in case members do not have all the books) and by typing in the division on the web. There are many good reference points giving a full review of the formation and combat of the division through WWII.
Mitch

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Mitch,

Good catch on the 24th, No alot of folks pay attention to those little details. If you can post a couple of book titles I would appreciate it. My books are all still in boxes and I would like to see if I have the same reference books. I also prefer the books to the web since i like to have it handy to thumb through whenever.

Dave

 

[Mitch]

Dave...

There are a few but, some I enjoyed are as follow:
The Panzer Legions: A guide to the German Army tank Divisions of WWII

Iron Horsemen: Memoirs of Obergefreiter Panse 24th Panzer Division

Death of the leaping Horseman.

The latter is good as it has good detail and over 200 pics

There are quite a few Osprey titles showing the uniforms of German tankers etc in written and pic form and many more on the Division and its history and development and space precludes listing all.

Hope it offers some help
Mitch

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Mitch,

I have the first one but dont have the other two and will see what I can do to pick them up. Thanks for the great info.

Dave

 

[Mitch]

My pleasure
Mitch

PS. just checked my shelves another for those wanting much more detail is
Field uniforms of german army panzer forces in WWII Vol 1 has over 300 mpics and another 60 more incolour and shows the division well
Mitch

 

[Gebhard]

Thanks Greycap for bringing this to my attention , It seems I learned something new
Hey Matt can I send back my crewmen back for a repaint .
I notice a lot of guys when talking about the piping on German uniforms choose to use the German word which is Waffenfarbe in the singular and Waffenfarben in the plural . I see it spelled wrong many many times I am probability guilty of this myself in trying to type in haste thank good none of my Family read my post maybe going forward we can all try to use the correct spelling . All the best Gebhard

 

[Mitch]

It will be interesting what is done about the existing sets sets and what will happen in future AFV releases. I do know this and a couple of points about the Panzer III were raised before but, came to nothing. Its good moving forward that this may allow critique to enter without rebuke in the thread section.
Mitch

 

[graycap]

I just feel I ought to say that I have the 24th Pz MK III and I think it is absolutely superb - the best model AFV produced by the model soldier industry in 1/60th (or whatever). With that I can live with the waffenfarbe!

 

[Mitch]

You are right, its still a great figure, just shows it can happen to everyone
Mitch