Plancenoit, a model for Fuentes de Oñoro (2 Viewers)

[Spitfrnd]

There is no doubt the recent First Legion Dio of Plancenoit is striking and deserving of much replication with these fine figures and buildings by Napoleonic fans. It also rekindled my enthusiasm for hopefully being able to do the same with Fuentes de Oñoro, a Peninsula battle that just cries out for multiple dioramic coverage.

As I have said before, this British, Portuguese and Spanish versus French battle had it all: massed French column attacks, cavalry strikes by French Cruissiers, Dragoons, Hussars, Chasseurs à Cheval and Lancers, brave counter strikes by British KGL, heavy and light Dragoons and Hussars, cavalry defying rescues by the Light Division and the Rifles, thrilling cavalry gun escapes, brutal eye to eye volleys and bayonet attacks in narrow village streets by British regulars and highlanders and a result which was in doubt until the end. There were many great Napoleonic battles but none with more drama or more clashes between such a diverse group of units. Also the subject of one of the best Sharpe books IMO. Some further encouragement to follow.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Re: Placenoit, a model for Fuentes de Oñoro

French cavalry attacking a British square and Fuentes de Onoro. After being surprised and mauled (along with a Spanish Unit) the 7th Division was able to recover and protect itself from successive French cavalry attacks by many different units. The Light Division marched into the plains overflowing with French cavalry and enable the 7th Division to successfully withdraw to the main British lines.

 

[marco55]

Even though the Napoleanic Wars is not one of my main areas of interest the Peninsula campaign seemed to me to be one of the more interesting theaters of the wars.
Mark

 

[Spitfrnd]

Even though the Napoleanic Wars is not one of my main areas of interest the Peninsula campaign seemed to me to be one of the more interesting theaters of the wars.
Mark

Certainly I agree. Here is a painting of some of the intense street fighting at Fuentes de Oñoro

The Highlanders and the Connaught Rangers were instrumental in holding and retaking the town in the brutal fighting which spanned two days.

 

[DCN1898]

I would love to see Peninsular War subjects from FL. KGL cavalry, Portuguese forces and Spanish uniforms and Guerillas world make for some great figures.

 

[marco55]

Is there any good books on the Peninsula War?
Mark

 

[Grognard]

"Les soldats de la Grande Armée" by Jean-Claude Damamme has a very good chapter on the Peninsula war but you have to read French...

Half of the very good "Wellington and Napoleon" by Robin Neillands is devoted to the Spain/Portugal Nap war period.

Enjoy!

 

[Spitfrnd]

Is there any good books on the Peninsula War?
Mark

Absolutely Mark and many in English as well. For starters, I would suggest The Spanish Onion by David Gates or the Wellington in the Peninsula by Jac Weller. Both are readily available in excellent used condition and quite good. Osprey also has very good texts on the major battles, including Fuentes de Oñoro.

Interestingly you can also find a great deal about the battles and units involved from various web sites like
http://www.napoleonguide.com/battle.htm
http://web2.iadfw.net/napoleon/
I would especially recommend the excellent Napoleon Series web site which has a wealth of information on just about everything on the period, including the battles and campaigns and a very scholarly set of forums on various topics.
http://www.napoleon-series.org/
Finally, for the British perspective, which includes most of the major Peninsula battles you can check the Peninsula section here:
http://www.britishbattles.com/
Also dedicated to the Peninsula wars is
http://www.peninsularwar.org/

 

[lancer]

Absolutely Mark and many in English as well. For starters, I would suggest The Spanish Onion by David Gates or the Wellington in the Peninsula by Jac Weller. Both are readily available in excellent used condition and quite good. Osprey also has very good texts on the major battles, including Fuentes de Oñoro.

Interestingly you can also find a great deal about the battles and units involved from various web sites like
http://www.napoleonguide.com/battle.htm
http://web2.iadfw.net/napoleon/
I would especially recommend the excellent Napoleon Series web site which has a wealth of information on just about everything on the period, including the battles and campaigns and a very scholarly set of forums on various topics.
http://www.napoleon-series.org/
Finally, for the British perspective, which includes most of the major Peninsula battles you can check the Peninsula section here:
http://www.britishbattles.com/
Also dedicated to the Peninsula wars is
http://www.peninsularwar.org/

I believe the first book Spitfrnd is refering to is "The Spanish ULCER" by David Gates. Done in 1986 by W.W. Norton & Co. He is correct, IMO, as it is probably the best one volume history of the subject. -- lancer

 

[Spitfrnd]

I believe the first book Spitfrnd is refering to is "The Spanish ULCER" by David Gates. Done in 1986 by W.W. Norton & Co. He is correct, IMO, as it is probably the best one volume history of the subject. -- lancer

You are correct mate, now where did that come from; it is enough to give you an ulcer or maybe it was the onion?

 

[lancer]

You are correct mate, now where did that come from; it is enough to give you an ulcer or maybe it was the onion?

Well, it was a smelly situation for Napoleon, was it not? -- Al

 

[Spitfrnd]

Is there any good books on the Peninsula War?
Mark

In addition to those purely historical links I mentioned (with the correction by Lancer), I would be remiss not to include the most excellent historical fiction Sharpe series by Bernard Cornwell. Good historical fiction fits its fictional characters into accurately portrayed historical events and Cornwell is a master of the genre. All his books are meticulously researched and while the main characters and their acts may be fiction, the description of the events that surround them and with which they interact is not and where not, very accurate indeed, as well as most entertaining. The series covers most of the major battles of the Peninsula War and provides much detail that would require a resort to several sources to obtain. His descriptions of the battles and combat scenes are particularly well done and correspond with descriptions by the eyewitness accounts I have read from various sources about the fighting of the period. Each book also has a ending historical note that describes which persons and events are fiction and which are not. IMO, no one interested in the Napoleonic Wars should miss them. One does indeed cover the battle of Fuentes de Oñoro.
http://www.amazon.com/Sharpes-Battle-Richard-Fuentes-Adventure/dp/0060176776

 

[nasirkasmani]

my closest approach to the Napoleonic period was watching the hugely entertaining six-hour mini series Napoleon starring Christian Clavier (Napoleon), Isabella Rossellini (Josephine) and John Malkovich (Talleyrand).

with the current exposure and superb releases, perhaps i'll do well to pick up a book or 2.

 

[DCN1898]

I completely agree with the plug for the Sharpe series. They got me interested in the Napoleonic wars and caused me to do some other reading. Now I'm hooked. After we get Matt to release some Peninsular War items. I will have to start politicing for India specifically Assaye! Wellington claimed that it was one of the best battles that he ever fought

 

[Spitfrnd]

A painting of the Rifles at Fuentes de Orono. The Rifles were one of the instrumental forces in keeping the French cavalry and artillery from having a free hand to attack in the textbook withdrawal of the Light Division from the over extended British right flank.

 

[FirstLegion]

There is no doubt the recent First Legion Dio of Plancenoit is striking and deserving of much replication with these fine figures and buildings by Napoleonic fans. It also rekindled my enthusiasm for hopefully being able to do the same with Fuentes de Oñoro, a Peninsula battle that just cries out for multiple dioramic coverage.

As I have said before, this British, Portuguese and Spanish versus French battle had it all: massed French column attacks, cavalry strikes by French Cruissiers, Dragoons, Hussars, Chasseurs à Cheval and Lancers, brave counter strikes by British KGL, heavy and light Dragoons and Hussars, cavalry defying rescues by the Light Division and the Rifles, thrilling cavalry gun escapes, brutal eye to eye volleys and bayonet attacks in narrow village streets by British regulars and highlanders and a result which was in doubt until the end. There were many great Napoleonic battles but none with more drama or more clashes between such a diverse group of units. Also the subject of one of the best Sharpe books IMO. Some further encouragement to follow.

Your persistence is certainly admirable! And who knows, it may pay off.

As you know, the problem is that there are so many battles that have so many wonderful scenes that there is essentially a near limitless number of options for us to repeat what we've done with Plancenoit and the Prussians. I do like the painting of the 95th Rifles though, good inspiration. As they were at Waterloo if and when we release them, you can pretend we did them for the Penninsula.

This is becoming a staring contest between you and us - you trying to faithfully stick to only collecting French and British while we tempt you with other nationalities and us trying to stick to the battles on the continent while you tempt us with the Penninsula...who will blink first?

Best,

Matt
First Legion Ltd

 

[Spitfrnd]

Your persistence is certainly admirable! And who knows, it may pay off.

Well if persistence is what is takes; then that is what I will have. Certainly the end does justify the means in this case.

As you know, the problem is that there are so many battles that have so many wonderful scenes that there is essentially a near limitless number of options for us to repeat what we've done with Plancenoit and the Prussians.

Indeed there are many such battles. However I very seriously doubt that you will find any more worthy than Fuentes. Its diversitiy and the intensity of its actions and heroics just cries out for representation. Just read some accounts of the fighting there and then feel free to tell me I am all wet.

I do like the painting of the 95th Rifles though, good inspiration. As they were at Waterloo if and when we release them, you can pretend we did them for the Penninsula.

It is nice to know I have accomplished something with this thread. Indeed, you make them for where ever you like and I will indeed so pretend. The funny thing is if you just continue with the British and French Waterloo orders of battle I will be pretty far along on doing this battle. More on that in a later post.

This is becoming a staring contest between you and us - you trying to faithfully stick to only collecting French and British while we tempt you with other nationalities and us trying to stick to the battles on the continent while you tempt us with the Penninsula...who will blink first?

I certainly don't think that is necessary. In fact, there is no need for a blink, just another nod. No matter how many like it, the Napoleonic Wars are not complete without the British and the Peninsula. Obviously the same is true for the continent. No question each have their dedicated followers. So really the question is why have one without the other, especially since much can be used for both. When you see the Fuentes Orders of Battle you will see how really close we are.

 

[DCN1898]

Just as the Napoleonic Wars would not be complete without the Peninsula, it would not be complete without the Russians and the Austrians. Borodino has showcased the Russians and Napoleon's German allies.
I think someday down the line, the Austrians and Saxons also need to be covered to be a complete representation of the Napoleonic Wars.

 

[DCN1898]

But Fuentes Del Orono would be an awesome start

 

[Spitfrnd]

Indeed Fuentes de Onoro would be a great place to start and not that much of a leap from Waterloo. Consider the British Order of Battle at Fuentes, with the Waterloo Units in bold:
British order of battle:
Commander: Lieutenant General Viscount WellingtonCavalry: commanded by Major General Stapleton Cotton
1st Brigade: commanded by Major General Slade: 1st Dragoons, 14th Light Dragoons.
2nd Brigade: commanded by Lieutenant Colonel von Arentschildt: 16th Light Dragoons, 1st Hussars, King’s German Legion.
Portuguese Brigade: commanded by Brigadier General Barbacena: 4th and 10th Portuguese Dragoons.

Infantry:
Lieutenant General Spencer
1st Division: commanded by Major General Nightingall
1st Brigade: commanded by Colonel Stopford: 1st/Coldstream Guards, 1st/3rd Guards, 1 Co. 5th/60th Foot.
2nd Brigade: commanded by Lieutenant Lord Blantyre: 2nd/24th Foot, 2nd/42nd Foot, 1st/79th Foot (Highlanders), 1 Co. 5th/60th Foot (Rifles).
3rd Brigade: commanded by Major General Howard: 1st/50th Foot, 1st/71st Foot (Highlanders), 1st/92nd Foot (Highlanders), 1 Co. 5th/60th “Foot.
4th Brigade: commanded by Major General Sigismund, Baron Löw: 1st, 2nd, 5th, 7th Line Battalions, King’s German Legion, Detachments of Light Battalions, KGL.

3rd Division: commanded by Major General Thomas Picton.
1st Brigade: commanded by Colonel Mackinnon: 1st/45th Foot, 1st/74th Foot (Highlanders), 1st/88th Foot (Connaught Rangers), 3 Cos 5th/60th Foot.
2nd Brigade: commanded by Major General Colville: 2nd/5th Foot, 2nd/83rd Foot, 2nd/88th Foot, 94th Foot (Connaught Rangers).
Portuguese Brigade: commanded by Colonel Manley Power: 1st and 2nd/9th, 1st and 2nd/21st Portuguese Line Regiments.

5th Division: commanded by Major General Sir William Erskine
1st Brigade: commanded by Colonel Hay: 3rd/1st Foot, 1st/9th Foot, 2nd/38th Foot, Co. Brunswick Oels
2nd Brigade: commanded by Major General Dunlop: 1st/4th Foot, 2nd/30th Foot, 2nd/44th Foot, Co Brunswick Oels
Portuguese Brigade: commanded by Brigadier General Spry: 1st and 2nd/3rd and 1st and 2nd/15th Portuguese Line Regiments, 8th Caçadores

6th Division: commanded by Major General Alexander Campbell
1st Brigade: commanded by Colonel Hulse: 1st/11th Foot, 2nd/53rd Foot, 1st/61st Foot, 1 Co. 5th/60th Foot
2nd Brigade: commanded by Colonel Robert Burne: 1st/36th Foot (2nd Foot at Almeida)
Portuguese Brigade: commanded by Brigadier General Frederick, Baron Eben: 1st and 2nd/8th Foot, 1st and 2nd/12th Portuguese Line Regiments

7th Division: commanded by Major General John Houston
1st Brigade: commanded by Brigadier John Sontag: 51st Foot, 85th Foot, Chasseurs Britannique, Brunswick Oels Light Infantry (8 Cos.)
Portuguese Brigade: commanded by Brigadier General John Doyle: 1st and 2nd/7th and 1st and 2nd/19th Portuguese Line Regiments, 2nd Caçadores

Light Division: commanded by Brigadier General Robert Craufurd
1st Brigade: commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Sydney Beckwith: 1st/43rd Foot, 1st/95th Rifles (4 Cos), 2nd/95th Rifles (1 Co.), 3rd Caçadores
2nd Brigade: commanded by Colonel George Drummond: 1st/52nd Foot, 2nd/52nd Foot, 1st/95th Rifles (4 Cos), 1st Caçadores

Independent Portuguese Brigade: commanded by Colonel Ashworth: 1st and 2nd/6th, 1st and 2nd/18th Portuguese Line Regiments

Artillery: commanded by Brigadier General Howorth, 48 guns
Troops of Ross and Bull, Royal Horse ArtilleryBatteries of Lawson and Thompson
Portuguese batteries of Von Arentschild, da Cunha and Rozierres