Plancenoit, a model for Fuentes de Oñoro (1 Viewer)

[Saber]

Just as the Napoleonic Wars would not be complete without the Peninsula, it would not be complete without the Russians and the Austrians. Borodino has showcased the Russians and Napoleon's German allies.
I think someday down the line, the Austrians and Saxons also need to be covered to be a complete representation of the Napoleonic Wars.

Absolutely, especially when one considers Napoleon's marriage and battles such as Wagram etc. Any interest out there for units /battles representing the early war period such Arcola or Marengo

 

[Spitfrnd]

It seems I missed a few of the units that were also at Waterloo from the British Order of Battle at Fuentes. Here is an amended list with the new and other Waterloo Units in bold:

British order of battle:
Commander: Lieutenant General Viscount WellingtonCavalry: commanded by Major General Stapleton Cotton
1st Brigade: commanded by Major General Slade: 1st Dragoons, 14th Light Dragoons.
2nd Brigade: commanded by Lieutenant Colonel von Arentschildt: 16th Light Dragoons, 1st Hussars, King’s German Legion.
Portuguese Brigade: commanded by Brigadier General Barbacena: 4th and 10th Portuguese Dragoons.

Infantry:
Lieutenant General Spencer
1st Division: commanded by Major General Nightingall
1st Brigade: commanded by Colonel Stopford: 1st/Coldstream Guards, 1st/3rd Guards, 1 Co. 5th/60th Foot.
2nd Brigade: commanded by Lieutenant Lord Blantyre: 2nd/24th Foot, 2nd/42nd Foot, 1st/79th Foot (Highlanders), 1 Co. 5th/60th Foot (Rifles).
3rd Brigade: commanded by Major General Howard: 1st/50th Foot, 1st/71st Foot (Highlanders), 1st/92nd Foot (Highlanders), 1 Co. 5th/60th “Foot.
4th Brigade: commanded by Major General Sigismund, Baron Löw: 1st, 2nd, 5th, 7th Line Battalions, King’s German Legion, Detachments of Light Battalions, KGL.

3rd Division: commanded by Major General Thomas Picton.
1st Brigade: commanded by Colonel Mackinnon: 1st/45th Foot, 1st/74th Foot (Highlanders), 1st/88th Foot (Connaught Rangers), 3 Cos 5th/60th Foot.
2nd Brigade: commanded by Major General Colville: 2nd/5th Foot, 2nd/83rd Foot, 2nd/88th Foot, 94th Foot (Connaught Rangers).
Portuguese Brigade: commanded by Colonel Manley Power: 1st and 2nd/9th, 1st and 2nd/21st Portuguese Line Regiments.

5th Division: commanded by Major General Sir William Erskine
1st Brigade: commanded by Colonel Hay: 3rd/1st Foot, 1st/9th Foot, 2nd/38th Foot, Co. Brunswick Oels
2nd Brigade: commanded by Major General Dunlop: 1st/4th Foot, 2nd/30th Foot, 2nd/44th Foot, Co Brunswick Oels
Portuguese Brigade: commanded by Brigadier General Spry: 1st and 2nd/3rd and 1st and 2nd/15th Portuguese Line Regiments, 8th Caçadores

6th Division: commanded by Major General Alexander Campbell
1st Brigade: commanded by Colonel Hulse: 1st/11th Foot, 2nd/53rd Foot, 1st/61st Foot, 1 Co. 5th/60th Foot
2nd Brigade: commanded by Colonel Robert Burne: 1st/36th Foot (2nd Foot at Almeida)
Portuguese Brigade: commanded by Brigadier General Frederick, Baron Eben: 1st and 2nd/8th Foot, 1st and 2nd/12th Portuguese Line Regiments

7th Division: commanded by Major General John Houston
1st Brigade: commanded by Brigadier John Sontag: 51st Foot, 85th Foot, Chasseurs Britannique, Brunswick Oels Light Infantry (8 Cos.)
Portuguese Brigade: commanded by Brigadier General John Doyle: 1st and 2nd/7th and 1st and 2nd/19th Portuguese Line Regiments, 2nd Caçadores

Light Division: commanded by Brigadier General Robert Craufurd
1st Brigade: commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Sydney Beckwith: 1st/43rd Foot, 1st/95th Rifles (4 Cos), 2nd/95th Rifles (1 Co.), 3rd Caçadores
2nd Brigade: commanded by Colonel George Drummond: 1st/52nd Foot, 2nd/52nd Foot, 1st/95th Rifles (4 Cos), 1st Caçadores

Independent Portuguese Brigade: commanded by Colonel Ashworth: 1st and 2nd/6th, 1st and 2nd/18th Portuguese Line Regiments

Artillery: commanded by Brigadier General Howorth, 48 guns
Troops of Ross and Bull, Royal Horse Artillery, Batteries of Lawson and Thompson
Portuguese batteries of Von Arentschild, da Cunha and Rozierres

Clearly there was a representation by every major British unit at both.

 

[Spitfrnd]

The French Order of Battle also shows many units in common with Waterloo. Again the Waterloo Units are in bold and the * notes a comparable unit with similar uniform colors:

French order of battle:
Army of Portugal:
Commander-in-Chief: Marshal André Massena, Prince of Essling, Duke of Rivoli
II Corps: commanded by General Reynier
1st division commanded by General Merle: 2e, 4e Infantry Legere; 36e Infantry Ligne
2nd division commanded by General Heudelet: 17e, 31e Infantry Legere; 47e, 70e Infantry Ligne
Cavalry Brigade: commanded by General Soult: 1er Hussards; 22e Chasseurs Cheval; 8e* Dragoons

VI Corps: commanded by General Loison
1st division commanded by General Marchand: : 6e Infantry Legere; 39e, 69e, 76e Infantry Ligne;
2nd division commanded by General Mermet: : 25e, Infantry Legere; 27e, 50e, 59e Infantry Ligne
3rd division commanded by General Ferey: : 26e, 66e, 82e Infantry Ligne
Cavalry Brigade: commanded by General Lamotte: 3e Hussards*, 15e Chasseurs Cheval

VIII Corps: commanded by General Junot, Duke of Abrantes
2nd division commanded by General Solignac: : 15e, 65e, 86e Infantry Ligne

IX Corps: commanded by General Count d’Erlon
1st division commanded by General Claparéde: 21e, 28e Infantry Legere; 40e, 54e, 63e, 64e, 88e, 100e, 103e Infantry Ligne
2nd division commanded by General Conroux: 9e, 16e Infantry Legere; 8e, 24e, 27e, 45e, 94e, 95e, 96e Infantry Ligne
Cavalry Brigade commanded by General Fournier: 7e, 13e, 20e, Chasseurs Cheval

Reserve of Cavalry commanded by General Montbrun: 3e*, 10e*, 15e, Dragoons; 6e, 11e, 25e Dragoons
Artillery commanded by General Eblé: 40 guns

Army of the North:
Commander-in-Chief: Marshal Bessiéres, Duke of Istria
Light Cavalry of the Imperial Guard commanded by General Lepic: Chasseurs Cheval; Marmalukes; 11e, 12e, 24e Chasseurs Cheval
Light Cavalry Brigade commanded by General Wathier
Artillery: 6 guns.

 

[Fusilier]

Spitfrnd, thanks a lot for the information in the last two posts. I appreciate the designating of the Waterloo units as well.

Noah

 

[DCN1898]

Yes, Thank you for the information. I learn a lot on these forums. Great job!

 

[Spitfrnd]

My pleasure, I am glad some of you find it useful. It is nice to find an application for my 600 page Digby Smith Napoleonic Wars Data Book.

The comparison with Waterloo does show that with a reasonable expectation of additions to the French and British ranks, coupled with what we already have, creating Fuentes de Oñoro is not that much of a stretch.

For Waterloo, I think we may expect to see Heavy and Light British Dragoons, 95th Rifles, Highlanders, some additional British line infantry, French Hussars and Dragoons and some additional French line infantry. With some Spanish buildings for the street fighting we would then have the core, which is another reason it makes a good starting point for the Peninsula.

Of course a Royal Horse Artillery set would be a great addition and eventually the Portuguese Caçadores, Dragoons and line infantry would be helpful but you could replicate much of the battle before they were added. So it is not a sea change but a minor adjustment of the tack. See no blinking is required.

 

[marco55]

Was there any regiments that stood out in this engagement, like a last ditch stand or in the center of the action?
Mark

 

[Spitfrnd]

Was there any regiments that stood out in this engagement, like a last ditch stand or in the center of the action?
Mark

Yes there were many, which in part is what makes it such a great choice for multiple display opportunities.

On the first day, the fighting was confined to the town of Fuentes de Oñoro, with determined attacks by the French VI Corps and standout defense performed by the skirmishers of the 60th Foot, with later stellar resistance by the 71st (Highlander), 79th (Highlander) and 24th (South Wales) Foot.

On the second day, the action was divided between the Town and the open plain to the west. On the plain, the newly formed 7th Division was nearly overwhelmed by a coordinated infantry and cavalry attack but was able to reorganize and holdout with a use of squares and the brave and determined assistance of the British Heavy Dragoons (1st or Royal) and Light Dragoons (14th and 16th) and Bull's Royal Horse Artillery. Wellington reacted to their peril by sending Crauford's Light Division consisting of the 1st/43rd Foot, 1st & 2nd /95th Rifles , 3rd Caçadores, 1st & 2nd/52nd Foot, and 1st Caçadores, to rescue them. Crauford's troops displayed amazing discipline and precision, forming into line to discourage the French Infantry and snapping back to squares to drive of the cavalry. The 95th Rifles especially distinguished themselves in this effort, keeping both French Artillery and Cavalry at bay with their skirmishing. The British Dragoons continued to provide invaluable cover against the vastly larger French force of Dragoons, Chasseurs and Hussars. This was also where a battery of Bull's Artillery made its famous dash through the French cavalry lines to save its guns with sabers and daring.

The second day's action in the town was a blood bath and much of the fighting hand to hand. Again it was the determined resistance of the 71st, 79th and 24th that proved vital, although they were eventually pushed back the greater French masses of two full Divisions. The tide was ultimately stemmed by Picton's 74th and the wild Irish Connaught Rangers (the 88th). The Scots counterattacked as well. Near the end of the fighting the French sent 3 full divisions against the town and attacked seven times but all attacks were repulsed with point blank volleys, bayonets and fists. All of the afore mentioned regiments received battle honors, as did several other regiments.

 

[marco55]

Thanks Spit,very good recap of the battle.Would make a good movie.
Mark

 

[DCN1898]

It would make a great movie. You show the action in the town itself and scale down the action to a manageable level for the camera and still tell a large story.

 

[Spitfrnd]

It would make a great movie. You show the action in the town itself and scale down the action to a manageable level for the camera and still tell a large story.

I agree it would make a great movie. That is closely related to its merits as a set piece for First Legion treatment.

I don't think you would need to limit the action to the town though. I see it as a dual focus switching back and forth between the town and the plain to pick up the major action. You could do it with far fewer extras than Gettysburg and still capture the essence of the battle quite well I think.

 

[nmrocks]

Bernard Cornwell's book "Sharpes Battle" is about his being in the 95th rifles and the battle.
Great action!!
Ray

 

[DCN1898]

Bernard Cornwell's book "Sharpes Battle" is about his being in the 95th rifles and the battle.
Great action!!
Ray

I agree it is an awesome book with great depictions of the fight in the streets of the village and the movement of the Light Division back to the rest of the army. I would consider it a "Must Read" for an introduction to the Peninsula War.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Quite agree about Cornwell as I have noted many times here, as in post #12 for this thread. I wouldn't necessarily start with Sharpe's Battle* Which does indeed do an excellent job on the Battle of Fuentes de Oñoro
, though since you not only miss a lot about the development of the characters and their relationships but you miss a lot about the progress of the war and Cornwell's great descriptions of the combat of earlier battles of the period, especially from the earlier (* highly recommended):
Sharpe's Havoc: Battle of Oporto
Sharpe's Eagle*: Battle of Talavera
Sharpe's Gold: Siege of Almeida
Sharpe's Escape*: Battle of Bussaco
Sharpe's Fury: Battle of Barrosa

Actually I would start with Sharpe's Rifles with the French Invasion of Galicia, to fully appreciate the Sharpe-Harper connection. Then of course the are many more to recommend after Fuentes.

 

[DCN1898]

Ah! Just start from the beginning at Sharpe's Tiger and learn a little about Wellington in India. The development of the characters is very well done. Sharpe's Rifles is still probably my favorite, although Sharpe's Regiment gives an insight to English society.
I would like to see a series from the French perspective.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Ah! Just start from the beginning at Sharpe's Tiger and learn a little about Wellington in India. The development of the characters is very well done. Sharpe's Rifles is still probably my favorite, although Sharpe's Regiment gives an insight to English society.
I would like to see a series from the French perspective.

Yes that would be interesting. Certainly Cornwell has many fine French characters in his series, quite a few with more redeeming attributes than their British counterparts and then there are Sharpe's French mistresses (and wife) but no doubt a French Sharpe would be interesting. BTW, it is interestly that he has the best luck with the women that initially try to kill him.

 

[DCN1898]

Maybe Colonel Dubreton from Sharpe's Enemy could be fleshed out into a series. Having a sergeant like Harper as a partner in war, is a little close to the Sharpe series, Dubreton seems to come from a much different background and he has an English wife. In Sharpe's Enemy, he is Chef du Battalion 54th ligne. This regiment was at Barrosa ans Talavera.

 

[nmrocks]

All volumes are very good, the only complaint I have about the series is in trying to make each volume stand alone the text is very repetitive as he retells much of what has gone on in previous stories.
If I could summerize the Sharpes cronicle for those not familiar but do love the intrigue and action style, Think Tom Clancy in the napoleonic era.
Ray

 

[Spitfrnd]

I think Cornwell has all the action and description in detail of Clancey but the main characters are quite different, even accounting for the differences in time. I do enjoy both so maybe it is fair to say if you enjoy Clancey, seperate and apart from the technology, you will probably like Cornwell. I once found this Cornwell readers review helpful as well for other things to try:
BRETHREN, CRUSADE, REQUIEM (Trilogy....so far anyway!)
Author: Robyn Young
The story is extremely compelling and the writing has similarities to Mr Cornwell's style. the story goes from the holy land crusades all the way to Edward Longshanks fighting on two fronts in Scotland and France and the story has twists and turn to keep you reading (and not getting much sleep).

 

[Spitfrnd]

Maybe Colonel Dubreton from Sharpe's Enemy could be fleshed out into a series. Having a sergeant like Harper as a partner in war, is a little close to the Sharpe series, Dubreton seems to come from a much different background and he has an English wife. In Sharpe's Enemy, he is Chef du Battalion 54th ligne. This regiment was at Barrosa ans Talavera.

Funny, I thought the same thing when recently reading Enemy. Close or not he is a Sharpe kind of hero, albeit a much more educated and cultured one.

I thought these short review excerpts might also be helpful for anyone who has not tried the Sharpe novels:

Sharpe's Escape:
As always, Cornwell’s narrative is filled with intense amounts of realism. Things that stick out are details such as a drummer boy forcing himself to sit up and continue drumming even though he’s dying...and how the men, passing him, pat him on the head for luck. Things like that are stark reminders of the horrors of war, and they stick out so much because there is a sort of terrible beauty and sorrow to them, and they feel very real.

Sharpe's Havoc:
You don't have any real rests between battles, because in the back ground the battles to do this are constantly moving forward. [Cornwell] puts the men in several untenable positions, but Sharpe, through his luck and common sense manages to bring everyone through them. Which is why, I think, Sharpe is so darned attractive...he is the underdog, but he always manages to triumph with his honor intact, which gives the reader a sense of hope. Lushly described settings and battles transport us back once more into Sharpe's time...a journey that I always love to take, and hope to take again.

Also, if you like Sharpe, O'Brian and Forrester, you might try Allan Mallinson's Mathew Hervey series which does for the Cavalry what Sharpe does for the Infantry and O'Brian and Forrester for the Navy.
http://www.hervey.info/