Potentially More Controversy (1 Viewer)

SPICK0001

SPICK0001

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Many of the KC pieces show us the noble nature of all the sides in the WW2 line German, Russian, American, Japanese etc., but how about some pieces that remind us of why we fought. I know that some areas are taboo but what about the Liberation of Buchenwald, the Wannsee Conference, The Rape of Nanking, etc. These sets would offer perfect examples of why we fought. I know that KC could do it tastefully. I also think a limited edition set of Hitler at the railcar at Compiegne would be incredible. The railcar as a background, Hitler in the midst of his famous knee slap at the height of arrogance and power. They remind us all of why we fought. And yes I know what the image of holocaust survivors in miniature can evoke in terms of emotion, but that is the point. Yes I know what the image of the architects of the Holocaust seated at a conference table can evoke in terms of emotion, but that is the point. Even a set of a flight crew preparing an atomic bomb for delivery. The Death of Heydrich touched on this area. Are these other areas just too taboo? Because if they are, aren't we just choosing to forget?
 
You pose a very good question,but i'm afraid the answer may be short and sweet.I do not think there would be any call for figures in any relation to the Holocaust.For me the only reason i got the Heydrich set was because it depicted this loathsome excuse of a human being getting his just rewards.And sooner or later there has to be a line.Where would it stop?.Civilians entering the Gas chambers??.Andy is a very wise business man and he knows figures of SUCH subjects would be about as popular as Jack the ripper at a singles bar.I don't think we are choosing to forget in not wanting such extremes in figures.Its easy to say you realise what emotions are evoked by the Holocaust,but you have REALLY to think HOW painful this could be for survivors of this hideous crime.With the greatest respect(and you raise a valid question)i would not touch those figures in a million years.Lets celebrate the Nazi's being destroyed,not the awful shroud they through across the world.

Rob
 
The Gestapo Arrest set didn't bother me, I guess because it didn't show the actual act of him being shot. While other K&C sets show someone being shot, they are not depicting atrocities. Personally I wouldn't want any holocaust figures. I don't think neglecting to depict the scenes you mentioned is choosing to forget because toy soldier collectors/history buffs like us are already more knowledgeable about it than the average person. It's the historically illiterate that needs to learn about these events. Also, it would be inappropriate I think because of the "fun" aspect of the hobby. Whether we're enjoying our K&C collection or playing Call of Duty, we're able to separate out the "cool" part of warfare from the true horror of war. A holocaust set would destroy that separation and ruin the enjoyment of the hobby, at least for me.

The idea of figure of Hitler doing his knee-slap surrounded by some generals would be cool, though. I would also be neat to see a depiction of the two surrender scenes.
 
Why not take this in another direction? How about Mussolini on a meathook? Hitler on the couch with the gun in his mouth, Eva Braun's dead body by his side? Some of the other Nazi's about to be hung from the gallows ater being convicted of war crimes? I would have no problem with a "just desserts" line of Axis leader figures.
 
Far be it for me to cut off debate but we have been down this road on this Forum countless times and it's the kind of debate from which no good really results. Do we really need this? I'm sure there are other topics that could be better explored.
 
jazzeum said:
Far be it for me to cut off debate but we have been down this road on this Forum countless times and it's the kind of debate from which no good really results. Do we really need this? I'm sure there are other topics that could be better explored.
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I think those are wise words.
Regards
Damian
 
Hi Guys,

A big thanks to “SPICK0001” for raising this subject...here’s my opinion for what it’s worth...

All historical subject matter is technically possible to produce the good...the bad...and the downright ugly. But like all other potential ideas and suggestions it has to balance by certain important criteria which have to be met:

1) Is it relevant to what K&C is already producing or indeed what we might produce in the future?

2) Is it a suitable subject to reproduce in miniature?

3) Is it commercial? Will it “sell”?

Now, let’s take a closer look at some of the potential subjects suggested...

a) “Liberation of Buchenwald (or indeed any concentration camp)”

Ask yourself what we should show...A number of skeletal human beings greeting a few American GI’s or British Tommies? A couple of captured SS men throwing the corpses of their innocent victims into a pit? Other captured SS men being lynched by their former victims?

Historical yes! A subject K&C would want to reproduce in miniature...I don’t think so.

b) “The Wannsee Conference” — This was the Heydrich-chaired conference involving top Nazis where “The Final Solution” was worked out in detail...So, what do we depict...a mixed bunch of Nazi officials sitting around a table? I don’t know about you but it doesn’t particularly set my “creative juices” flowing...

c) “The Rape of Nanking”...This was after the fall of Nanking (I think in 1938) when the Japanese Army ran amok for over a week and slaughtered almost 300,000 Chinese men, women and children.

I’ve visited Nanking and seen the horrific photos of bodies heaped up in the streets, alleyways and along the river bank. What might we do...? The Japanese killing and raping their victims...or the terrible aftermath?

Again, I say, no way...no how...!

This brings me to an important point. From my experience the vast major of K&C collectors (and other toy soldier enthusiasts) are fairly well informed on history...especially World War Two.

Most of us know all too well why Britain and America fought the “good fight” against Nazi and Japanese bestiality and horror during the Second World War. My own parents and grandparents lived through it (along with many millions of others) they taught us from real experiences they went through between 1939 and 1945.

What is lacking today in our schools is that all history is being virtually ignored and neglected by the politically correct and woefully ignorant authorities. A generation has grown up with virtually no personal contact with men and women who lived and fought through World War Two. People of my generation (I was born in 1949) learnt, knew and talked with the folks who actually experienced it and knew exactly of why and what we fought for.

King & Country tries its level best to educate and illustrate certain important aspects battles and campaigns of the Second World War. It’s not our job or our wish to cover every single event that took place during that war. That’s for the history books...the TV documentaries and, occasionally, the movies.

What we (and others) can do is “draw” people to the subject by “illustrating” part of it and help them to explore other areas that are relevant and important.

So there you have it...more than my usual tuppence worth...but it is a subject worthy of debate and I’m so glad SPICK001 brought it up.

Sincerely yours,

Andy C. Neilson

P.S. I almost forgot...“Flight Crew preparing the Atomic Bomb”...I’m afraid this is another “not for me, thanks anyway” subject.

Although I personally think the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified. They saved many thousands of Allied POW’s held by the Japanese...plus hundreds of thousands of American, British and Australian troops who would otherwise have had to invade the Japanese mainland. And, literally millions of Japanese (civilian and military) who would have died defending Dai Nippon. Again, I don’t think it’s a suitable (or commercial) subject to portray in miniature...at least not for K&C.

P.P.S. I do, however, like the Compiegne Railway idea...that’s a distinct possible!
 
Kurt said:
The Gestapo Arrest set didn't bother me, I guess because it didn't show the actual act of him being shot. While other K&C sets show someone being shot, they are not depicting atrocities. Personally I wouldn't want any holocaust figures. I don't think neglecting to depict the scenes you mentioned is choosing to forget because toy soldier collectors/history buffs like us are already more knowledgeable about it than the average person. It's the historically illiterate that needs to learn about these events. Also, it would be inappropriate I think because of the "fun" aspect of the hobby. Whether we're enjoying our K&C collection or playing Call of Duty, we're able to separate out the "cool" part of warfare from the true horror of war. A holocaust set would destroy that separation and ruin the enjoyment of the hobby, at least for me.

The idea of figure of Hitler doing his knee-slap surrounded by some generals would be cool, though. I would also be neat to see a depiction of the two surrender scenes.
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Kurt,

Please accept my thanks for an excellent post. I couldn't agree more with you.

Cheers
H
 
Thanks Andy. I just want to say that I was born in 1969 and I agree with Andy that history is being more or less neglected in our schools. Though new to K&C, I have always collected. The pieces, especially the K&C are always asked about by anyone that visits my house, especially children and I am always amazed at how little they know about the subject. Some do not even know what conflicts they represent. The LAH pieces I have draw serious interest, probably from the beauty and drama of the pieces. I never fail to take the opportunity to remind them of what the images represent. Thanks.
By the way if you do the Compiegne scene, I'll guarantee you one sale.
 
A good post there Andy.I agree with your point about educating the kids,its by being aware of the whole story bad bits and all that we avoid it happening again.

Rob
 
I recently watched a segment on "Real Time with Bill Maher" when he had Ken Burns on. He asked Ken why he made "The War". Ken answered that he visited a school and when the subject of WWII came up the students thought we were allied with the GERMANS against the Russians! :eek:

Personally I love the sets like Gestapo Arrest. I, as some of you may know, believe that the Berlin 38 range glorifies the Nazi scum in their shinny parade uniforms, with banners, goose stepping and saluting. Yes yes yes its history and I know it is a good seller...I've heard all of that before so no need to repeat it again here. If it gets your creative juices flowing to create them in that image why not do something for this image? :D
 

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Warbuff26 said:
I recently watched a segment on "Real Time with Bill Maher" when he had Ken Burns on. He asked Ken why he made "The War". Ken answered that he visited a school and when the subject of WWII came up the students thought we were allied with the GERMANS against the Russians! :eek:

Personally I love the sets like Gestapo Arrest. I, as some of you may know, believe that the Berlin 38 range glorifies the Nazi scum in their shinny parade uniforms, with banners, goose stepping and saluting. Yes yes yes its history and I know it is a good seller...I've heard all of that before so no need to repeat it again here. If it gets your creative juices flowing to create them in that image why not do something for this image? :D
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Yup,
Some pretty BAAAAAAD people in that photo.

Cheers
H
 
What amazes me is that many of these people just could not grasp the fact that what they had done was an outrage to humanity,they really thought it was their duty.

Rob
 
Rob said:
What amazes me is that many of these people just could not grasp the fact that what they had done was an outrage to humanity,they really thought it was their duty.

Rob
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Have you ever seen the film "Judgement at Nuremburg" Rob?
One of the most moving scenes I've ever seen was the newsreels they showed in the courtroom of victims of these monsters - and the reactions of the people watching it in the court.

Best Regards
H
 
If you want to watch something that will raise the hairs on the back of your neck, watch the HBO movie "Conspiracy" about the Wannsee conference. It will terrify you more than any horror movie.
 
SPICK0001 said:
If you want to watch something that will raise the hairs on the back of your neck, watch the HBO movie "Conspiracy" about the Wannsee conference. It will terrify you more than any horror movie.
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Yes if anyone ever wants a reason why so many had to give their lives in WW2 to destroy these scum just watch that film.Chilling in the extreme.A Great performance by Kenneth Branagh and all.


Harry,is that the one with Judy Garland?.Not sure i've seen it,will check it out.

Rob
 
Thanks for the link H,very good.Will watch this film now.

Rob
 
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