Pre K&C Streets of Hong Kong!! (1 Viewer)

[tdubel]

Here is a little historical viewing for the board. These are prototypes done by the King White Company who made the Reeves figure line in the 80s that I obtained. A small connection to King & Country. Anyhow, check them out, quite interesting. None of these were ever made/released, King White went out and so the Reeves line ended.

Tom

 

[jules118]

Great!!!! Really good to see these, thank you very much for posting.

Jules

 

[theBaron]

Wow! Thanks for posting these, Tom!

As a fan of King-White, I find it extremely interesting, because I never knew they had anything like this in the works. It's one more argument to support my view that KW was the stylistic godfather of K&C, and Frontline, the progenitor of the "Chinese style", as it came to be called, even if there was no direct connection between the old maker and the companies that followed.

I don't recall from discussions here in the forum, but do you know if there was there any actual connection, such as having any early sculpting or casting done at KW, as K&C got off the ground?

It just occurs to me now, too, that perhaps FairTech might have the masters or molds for these, or know of them.

Very interesting pieces, to be sure!

Prost!
Brad

 

[Louis Badolato]

As each of these poses appeared almost verbatim in K&C's Streets of Old Hong Kong series, I would be willing to bet that either the sculptor did some work from K&C, or Andy got to take photographs of or otherwise had access to these prototypes.

 

[jazzeum]

I think the question is which came first. This or the K & C SOHK since the SOHK goes back to the 80s as well. Louis would probably know more or less when.

 

[Louis Badolato]

I think the question is which came first. This or the K & C SOHK since the SOHK goes back to the 80s as well. Louis would probably know more or less when.

The first K&C Streets of Old Hong Kong figures appeared in the 1990-1991 Post Card Catalogue, so, since this maker went out of business in the 1980's, these had to have pre-dated K&C's efforts.

 

[tdubel]

Louis is right, King White disappeared in the 1980s to my knowledge. The backdrop is unbelievably heavy, when it shipped to me, there was a minor fissure where the sections went together as it has problem supporting its own weight in shipping. Pretty cool figures though, all lead, handle with gloves!!!!!

Tom

 

[jazzeum]

Bill Sager has the first brochure on his site dated in 1988, which has SOHK figures. Is the date incorrect (since it's probably your brochure)?

 

[Louis Badolato]

Bill Sager has the first brochure on his site dated in 1988, which has SOHK figures. Is the date incorrect (since it's probably your brochure)?

Just about every brochure on Bill's website has the incorrect date. His daughter shuffled the papers, and rather than getting the correct dates from me, he just guessed.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Just about every brochure on Bill's website has the incorrect date. His daughter shuffled the papers, and rather than getting the correct dates from me, he just guessed.

Many of the brochures on Sager's have the date printed on them - usually somewhere in the margin of the back page in small print.

Terry

 

[Louis Badolato]

Many of the brochures on Sager's have the date printed on them - usually somewhere in the margin of the back page in small print.

Terry

I know Terry, I wrote them there. I faxed Bill copies of mine, in order. His daughter messed up the order, and the ones with the dates written on them either by me or on the original brochure are the only ones you can trust.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I know Terry, I wrote them there. I faxed Bill copies of mine, in order. His daughter messed up the order, and the ones with the dates written on them either by me or on the original brochure are the only ones you can trust.

Oh so it was you who wrote the dates on some of them - the ones without printed dates. I didn't know until now that those handwritten dates could be relied on.

Fortunately a high proportion of the brochures have a printed date.

Terry

 

[jazzeum]

The one in question doesn't. I have originals of most of them but not this one.

 

[theBaron]

If I'm not mistaken, King-White closed down in the early 90's, maybe '91 or '92; I remember seeing their items in Armchair General's catalog at that time, and receiving a special catalog from AG, exclusively for Reeves items, billed as a going out of business sale. It featured the Samurai line pretty prominently, as well as featuring KW/Reeves' Napoleonic Prussians. Sounds like there was some overlap in terms of time, between K&C starting up and KW closing down.

I'm pretty sure we've covered this history before, because I think I asked these questions when I first joined. I'll see if I can track down the thread and what's in it.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Gideon]

I loved those Reeves figures. I used to get a couple when I was a kid every once in a while and I have a nice stash somewhere around here.

They are pretty much the founder of this style figure. The heft, sculpt style, matte finish, etc they developed and how alike Frontline and K&C are can't be a coincidence. No way.

These specifically, look at how the hair and eyes are painted, look at the sculpt of the hands, look at how the wood grain is depicted in the stock figure...

And Tom, those figures are unreal. I am jealous.

Brad, these figures are well before any SOHK series.

 

[tdubel]

I loved those Reeves figures. I used to get a couple when I was a kid every once in a while and I have a nice stash somewhere around here.

They are pretty much the founder of this style figure. The heft, sculpt style, matte finish, etc they developed and how alike Frontline and K&C are can't be a coincidence. No way.

These specifically, look at how the hair and eyes are painted, look at the sculpt of the hands, look at how the wood grain is depicted in the stock figure...

And Tom, those figures are unreal. I am jealous.

Brad, these figures are well before any SOHK series.

Gid,
Like you, I used to get these as a kid when Dad would go to FAO in NYC. They used to put a big Nap display up (the band). Anyhow, I kept them all these years and the last 5 made it a personal quest to get the entire catalog!!!!!!!! I am down to almost everything, just maybe a few WW2 pieces if any, and I need 2 of the chess sets (Civil War and Napoleonic).

I agree, they were the originator of the Chinese matte style. One day, I am going to get them all displayed, they really are a history lesson.

This batch was the last I found and I don't think I have all of them, but of course, these photos are my only reference. I got them from a Reeves distributor out of Florida who had them and gave me the background. He also gave me 4 special forces modern day figures that were never produced either.

It has been a fun quest that is for sure!

Tom

 

[theBaron]

I think I know the guy you mean, Tom. Does he sell on eBay? "The Toy Soldier Store" or something similar? I bought a CD from him with the Reeves catalog on it, and he sells either previously unsold KW castings and figures, or new castings from the original molds.

Prost!
Brad

 

[King & Country]

Hi Guys, hi Tom,

Re my friend Tom Dubel’s photos of the Chinese figures he posted yesterday.

Let me provide you with the actual background.

1. They are not “King White” figures and, most importantly, they do not pre date K&C’s “Streets of Old Hong Kong” series!
However there is a King White/ King & Country connection…

2. The guy who produced them was, at one time, the foreman of the King White factory here in HK up until the death of Mr. Cheung, the owner and operator of King White.

3. A couple of years after Mr. Cheung’s death, in the early 1990’s the former foreman approached K&C and offered to make figures on our behalf. He had set up his own small factory.

4. We decided to give him a trial with some of our earliest “Streets of Old Hong Kong” pieces. This he did and the results were “so-so”.
By this time K&C had already shifted its figure production from Hong Kong into Mainland China and, quite frankly, we could and did get better quality at a better price!

5. However, we persevered with the ex King White foreman and gave him a few orders over a period of about a year. To be honest, this guy’s quality was variable at best and he was not particularly reliable so it was perhaps not surprising that we parted ways.

6. Not long afterwards we started to see, in a few small gift shops around Hong Kong, our friend’s “own” version of our “Streets” figures. Most, if not all, of the figures shown in Tom’s photos were based on original K&C’s “Streets” series… The Man with the birdcage… The Fortune Teller… The Shoeshine Boy… and various rickshaws… even the little kids and the prisoner with his head in a wooden block!

7. The figures were not around very long and disappeared after a few months as did the ex foreman himself.

8. So, I can assure you King White were most definitely not the “Stylistic Godfather” of K&C and/or the progenitors of the “Chinese Style” of matt painting. In the 1980’s and perhaps before King White did produce in both gloss and matt styles. In all modesty the real beginning of the matt style of figure painting happened in September 1995. That’s when K&C launched the “ARNHEM’44” series. Little did we, or anyone else, realize at the time, that the matt-painted toy soldier would soon become the industry and hobby norm!

Hope this background story helps set the facts and record straight…

Best wishes and happy collecting!

Andy

 

[mario]

Thank you Andy
Mario

 

[jazzeum]

Thanks for clarifying this Andy. Until your post, I knew there were just not enough facts justifying the conclusion these predated K & C. Deep down I knew that K & C predated them. However, Tom does have a very interesting piece of history.