Prices, Prices, Prices..... (1 Viewer)

S

sceic2

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After having read in a couple of threads some posts regarding pricing, I thought it would be good to have a thread just for the topic of pricing. So here it is.

I am very surprised that the prices we pay for this hobby of ours have not risen more than they have. Here are a few of my reasons why I think that toy soldier producers have been very, very careful in their pricing so not to harm their market, better known as HaynesEcon 101. A few, did I say a few?

1.) The declining value of the US Dollar for the past year - US goods now cost less for foreign consumers and foreign imports cost US consumers more.

2.) The Chinese Yuan is controlled by the Central Bank of China and does not have a value fixed by the market but is artificially held at its current levels by political decisions made by the Chinese government - Chinese production costs remain relatively stable due to any affect or to any change in the value of the US Dollar.

3.) The price of labor is increasing in China - Due to a worldwide and increasing demand for cheap goods. The US is not the Chinese' only customer and Chinese businesses have many markets to choose from. The product goes to the highest paying customer.

4.) The value of a barrel of oil briefly flirted with $100 - It costs more to send products anywhere. Ships run on oil too.

5.) The US economy is going into a recession. Surprise, surprise, surprise. A recession will occur and it is a natural part of the business cycle. A recession will mean that more are unemployed and less is being paid as they were in a non-recessionary period. Prices tend to rise at first and then fall off as demand shrinks.

6.) Trade policies are changing worldwide - Tariffs and duty taxes are almost a non-issue in pricing products between trading partners and the US has a world full of them.

7.) The US credit market is having problems with the declining amounts of ready cash for operations. US banks have had to go hat-in-hand to foreign investors to obtain very large amounts of cash in order to maintain their cash flows.

8.) The cost of credit in the US is miss matched with the amount of funds available and the ability of borrowers to repay debt, especially in the housing market.

9.) The cost of credit in the US housing mortgage market is affecting the credit market in business finance. The Federal Reserve Board is still reducing the banks cost of funds and is expected to make a large rate cut next week. More rate cuts are expected into the year.

10.) The declining income increases for the middle class in the US. Pay raises are not keeping up with the changing cost of goods and services.

11.) The changes that take place in one part of the world’s having almost instantaneous effects on the world’s wide economy due to the increasing level of sophistication in the ability of the world to communicate and the interconnections of the world’s economy through not only technology, but through treaties, multi-national corporate decisions, and politics. We must never forget politics. North Korea is supposedly the largest producer of counterfeit $100 bills. Iran would love to see the US economy in shambles. Other countries do not have our best interests at heart.

I think that all of the producers in this hobby of ours should be thanked for keeping their prices reasonable and not increasing them to truly reflect the market. This means that people like Ana and her family at HB, Andy at K&C, John at John Jenkins, and all the others are taking home less profit and they are stretching their production levels to achieve more production for less cost. I say, "Thank You.":)
 
I tend to agree with Michael. I would suggest to anyine in any doubt to take a look at Bill Sager's site, with all of the old, as well as new listings and see how little prices have risen from the early figures / vehicles, to where we are now, eg:

AN006 - Original 1999/2000 Recce Jeep - $192
MG001 - New 2007 Recce Jeep - $115

AN014A Original (2000?) Maj Gen Urquhart - $25
MG016 New 2007 Maj Gen Urquhart - $29

Just a couple of examples, but there isn't a ridiculous difference in most of the product lines, over the past 7 or 8 years.

Simon
 
Michael- I see you've been watching MSNBC lately :D

I have steered clear of the whole debate really and I will here as well- for what it's worth, I collect from several different companies and have noticed general price increases from all of them. Those that claim to not increase prices, imo, just disguise the price increase by calling the production run "limited" or market the figure as a new, enhanced edition. Really, all they are doing is lowering their production runs and decreasing the costs and recouping some of their cash flows to stay in business.

I have heard/seen other theories on the US economy- there always tends to be a "recession" during an election year- everyone saw this coming for 2008. Plus, say a Republican should win the WH, then Wall St always responds well with one party in charge of the Congress and the other running the WH- investors love political gridlock.

If things are so tight for our toy soldier companies, why do more and more companies seem to be springing up or launching new lines or still expanded the market. I just think that the "baby boomer" generation here in the US- You know, the over 55 or 60, retired, no house payment, well educated or naturally curious, with plenty of money to burn,is going to be a driving consumer force in our country for the next quarter century.

I continue to see restuarants packed to the brim with customers, I continue to see more and more extragavagent vacation packages and cruise packages being offered to people, and I continue to see the "mega home" market- the 5,000+ sqauare foot home range continue to grow exponentially. It's the same story- manufacturing and financial services industries are taking the hit- it isn't the "leisure" industry per se. My firm did a pretty exhaustive analysis on this a year or so ago- the leisure industry in the US will be just fine going forward.

Good, bad or indifferent, the American consumer really hasn't changed their spending patterns, they have just figured out a way to continue to afford the lifestyle they enjoy.
 
I also get a kick out of the crowd who hammers on the companies who modestly raise prices for their figures. Everyone gets up in arms and it's a sign of the Apocalypse but then, well, hmmmm, in order to be able to afford to pay these prices that these toy soldier companies are charging, let me resort to evilbay and let the "free market" forces take charge of the situation. I mean they are "Retired" right- why shouldn't I be able to get more money out of it??

I recall a Major Narowski on the forum here a couple weeks ago looking to buy the KC Quad 50 halftrack and everyone was telling the poor guy that it was going to run him $400- $500!! Now here is a guy who is in the service, and, seeing how he is posting from NC, may be with the 82nd ABN, and, we are quick to jump all over him to tell him he'd better be ready to shovel out the cash yet we will post countless threads on how evil Andy and the rest of the lot are for modestly marking up our toy soldiers.

Could you imagine if some of you retired gentlemen decided to get a part time job to help pass the time or get extra cash. You go into the potential employers office and tell them you want a job. The guy tells you he'll pay you $10/hour- you counter with - "Well, that isn't close to the figure I had in mind- I am thinking $30/ hour- you know, because I am retired." :D:D

The point is, it just seems a little hypocritical to beat up on the companies for their pricing when we don't seem to have a problem letting ebay do our bidding for us- either way- we or the toy soldier companies have all come to the same conclusion- a fool and his money are soon departed- whoops:D- wait that wasn't it- the market will bear what it will bear.

I've never been more throughly convinced that we are experiencing a golden age in toy soldier collecting right now. The quality continues to improve, the selections are just overwhelming- toy soldiers are back where they belong- on the shelves of toy stores across the country- we have front row seats to the toy soldier "All you can eat (or buy)" event of the year- perhaps we should consider stepping away from the table before we allow ourselves to develop a bad case of financial heartburn or indigestion.
 
Another small point, a number of the customer service type jobs here are being eliminated and being shipped mainly to India which is also effecting the "middle class" and their disposable income. I don't think it will be too much longer before many of the computer programers see their jobs being eliminated and sent to India too, this has already begun at my company.
 
After having read in a couple of threads some posts regarding pricing, I thought it would be good to have a thread just for the topic of pricing. So here it is.

I am very surprised that the prices we pay for this hobby of ours have not risen more than they have. Here are a few of my reasons why I think that toy soldier producers have been very, very careful in their pricing so not to harm their market, better known as HaynesEcon 101. A few, did I say a few?

1.) The declining value of the US Dollar for the past year - US goods now cost less for foreign consumers and foreign imports cost US consumers more.

2.) The Chinese Yuan is controlled by the Central Bank of China and does not have a value fixed by the market but is artificially held at its current levels by political decisions made by the Chinese government - Chinese production costs remain relatively stable due to any affect or to any change in the value of the US Dollar.

3.) The price of labor is increasing in China - Due to a worldwide and increasing demand for cheap goods. The US is not the Chinese' only customer and Chinese businesses have many markets to choose from. The product goes to the highest paying customer.

4.) The value of a barrel of oil briefly flirted with $100 - It costs more to send products anywhere. Ships run on oil too.

5.) The US economy is going into a recession. Surprise, surprise, surprise. A recession will occur and it is a natural part of the business cycle. A recession will mean that more are unemployed and less is being paid as they were in a non-recessionary period. Prices tend to rise at first and then fall off as demand shrinks.

6.) Trade policies are changing worldwide - Tariffs and duty taxes are almost a non-issue in pricing products between trading partners and the US has a world full of them.

7.) The US credit market is having problems with the declining amounts of ready cash for operations. US banks have had to go hat-in-hand to foreign investors to obtain very large amounts of cash in order to maintain their cash flows.

8.) The cost of credit in the US is miss matched with the amount of funds available and the ability of borrowers to repay debt, especially in the housing market.

9.) The cost of credit in the US housing mortgage market is affecting the credit market in business finance. The Federal Reserve Board is still reducing the banks cost of funds and is expected to make a large rate cut next week. More rate cuts are expected into the year.

10.) The declining income increases for the middle class in the US. Pay raises are not keeping up with the changing cost of goods and services.

11.) The changes that take place in one part of the world’s having almost instantaneous effects on the world’s wide economy due to the increasing level of sophistication in the ability of the world to communicate and the interconnections of the world’s economy through not only technology, but through treaties, multi-national corporate decisions, and politics. We must never forget politics. North Korea is supposedly the largest producer of counterfeit $100 bills. Iran would love to see the US economy in shambles. Other countries do not have our best interests at heart.

I think that all of the producers in this hobby of ours should be thanked for keeping their prices reasonable and not increasing them to truly reflect the market. This means that people like Ana and her family at HB, Andy at K&C, John at John Jenkins, and all the others are taking home less profit and they are stretching their production levels to achieve more production for less cost. I say, "Thank You.":)

Yo Trooper, well impressed with the speel, you should be in the running for the Presidents job.
Bernard.
 
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Great post.

All this happening while one of the main sub-prime lending banks President is given a get otta dodge job as embassador to Holland. Love it.

While the Clintons daughter has a wonderful job as a hedgefund manager in NYC, while Mit Romney's sons are doing their national service "making sure their father is elected", etc.

I am in my early 30's and very frustrated by what I have been watching and coming to understand in my adult life. All these deals which benefit so many briefly and so few in the long term. All these little connections here and there which set up the economic landscape that my generation will inherit. Just part of the cycle I suppose.

Sorry about the rant here but I've been feeling pretty despondent about all of this. The only time I hear a candidate say something that I identify with is Ron Paul and, at least, McCains youngest son is serving in the Marines.

Edited to Add: If this is getting too political please delete my post. I knw that politics can be very devisive on forums.
 
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The Problem is business can never look at the long term because they are all beholden to immediate results. In business today it is literally performance month to month and you can lose your job for one bad month. most corporate execs make there money on performance bonuses, they simply have no interest in long term.
Ray
 
Personally I think the prices are fair...if they raise them much higher especially with the present econamy the way it is... I suspect these figures may not even sell at the present prices. Not only this but I don't want to comlain or even flurt with the idea of raising prices..this is a hobby and it certainly doesn't put food on the table!!!


Regards
Brian
 
I can't get very serious about it, though I do not mind such discussions. But I am afraid my opinions may border on Heresy.

They are toys

If you can't afford the nice pretty metal ones (or the pricey old plastic ones ). Buy some plastic and paint them yourself. You can have an army that rivals the best. You don't have to be picasso!

If you look very close at all industries, you will often find disturbing things. Particularly ones involving very poor people in the manufacturing process. And frankly, that we have been able to get such nicely made pieces, is, or was possible primarily due to a large disparity in standards of living, that could be capitolized on.

Much talk on that shifting lately. If so, good for them. Anybody still have those Airfix molds ?
 
I can't get very serious about it, though I do not mind such discussions. But I am afraid my opinions may border on Heresy.

They are toys

If you can't afford the nice pretty metal ones (or the pricey old plastic ones ). Buy some plastic and paint them yourself. You can have an army that rivals the best. You don't have to be picasso!

If you look very close at all industries, you will often find disturbing things. Particularly ones involving very poor people in the manufacturing process. And frankly, that we have been able to get such nicely made pieces, is, or was possible primarily due to a large disparity in standards of living, that could be capitolized on.

Much talk on that shifting lately. If so, good for them. Anybody still have those Airfix molds ?

I'm afraid my painting skills extend to a roller brush on the side of a wall, anything smaller and I'm in trouble:D
Any good sites for teaching amateur picasso wannabe's?
 
I'm afraid my painting skills extend to a roller brush on the side of a wall, anything smaller and I'm in trouble:D
Any good sites for teaching amateur picasso wannabe's?

Its a lot like the old color by numbers. Paint the face and hands 'skin tone', paint the uniform green, the helmet and belts black, etc. Work from the inside out so to speak. You can be pretty sloppy with the first colors, because later ones cover the overshoot. Save your steadiness for when you'll need it with the finishing touches, like buttons and belts.

If you paint a few at a time, by the time you have finished the skin tone on the 10th figure, the 1st is now dry enough to go on to the second color. That is with acrylics. For the enamels you may need longer drying times.

I would imagine there are several, and probably many sites with painting 'how-to's', but I do not know them. I don't think painting soldiers requires much artistic talent at all, just a type of small scale patience. I have shown kids how to do it. As far as purchased materials all's you need is about 7-8 tubes of basic color paints and a fine brush (like size '0') the rest you can scrounge up at home.
 
Has there really been a spike in prices, or if we were to look at the price of toy soldiers over the past ten years, would we see a steady rate of increase?

Regards,
Brad
 
Completely agree on the golden age or at least revival of toy soldier age comment. It wasn't to many years ago that the selection, range and quality of the figures was somewhat lacking to say the least. No offense to those that collect plastic as they are great (especialy that green army guy highporting his rifle:D) but I seem to remember some plastic parts of notably inferior quality creeping into the metal ranges not too many years or is it decades ago:eek:. I personally don't mind paying a few extra dollars each year for a product that continues to deliver improved quality and range but thats just IMHO.

I try to remeber that I do this for fun and childhood memories (not to mention second childhood;)). It is a pleasant way to relieve the stress of the more serious issues of life so if I have to forego a figure here or there so someone can make an extra few bucks in China or where ever, well thats OK buy me.

BTW I hope my comments don't offend as they are merely my personel feelings and not meant to be judgemental:).
 
Considering the Tiger was 200 and the new 88 is 239, what do people think of the 20% increase in price? Me , I didn't really think about it just bought it:D, but
just wondering about my future possible purchases. For example for 4 purchase's in this category you are now looking at around $1000:eek:
 
When you consider how much gas, real estate, tolls, and other costs of daily living have gone up in the last 10 years, with no real improvements in any of the goods and services being provided, I don't think the cost of toy soldiers has gone up that dramatically. Plus, you get what you pay for (i.e. if you want constant improvements in detail and quality [as we all clamor for on a daily basis] expect to pay for them).

Then there is the competition - instead of driving prices down, as my economics 101 professor told me they would, the fact that the competitors are constantly one upping each other on quality is driving the prices up. Lets face it, once companies like Figarti and Honour Bound decided to make super detailed true 1:30 scale products for $300 (Figarti Tiger) and $350+ (Honour Bound Custom Tiger), K&C had to jack up their quality and come up with true 1:30 scale (i.e. larger) higher quality products too. Bigger and better adds up to more expensive.
 
When you consider how much gas, real estate, tolls, and other costs of daily living have gone up in the last 10 years, with no real improvements in any of the goods and services being provided, I don't think the cost of toy soldiers has gone up that dramatically. Plus, you get what you pay for (i.e. if you want constant improvements in detail and quality [as we all clamor for on a daily basis] expect to pay for them).

Then there is the competition - instead of driving prices down, as my economics 101 professor told me they would, the fact that the competitors are constantly one upping each other on quality is driving the prices up. Lets face it, once companies like Figarti and Honour Bound decided to make super detailed true 1:30 scale products for $300 (Figarti Tiger) and $350+ (Honour Bound Custom Tiger), K&C had to jack up their quality and come up with true 1:30 scale (i.e. larger) higher quality products too. Bigger and better adds up to more expensive.

Hi Louis,

Your post is well stated and I agree with what you say. Thanks for sharing your view with us.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat
 
Here is my opinion: I like Britains and Conte because they are affordable. K&C is way too much.
 
Here is my opinion: I like Britains and Conte because they are affordable. K&C is way too much.

You get what you pay for in most cases, and consider the following:

* K & C products, especially their figures, usually have better detail.
* K & C vehicle sets usually include several figures. When you price each figure at say $25 each then the K & C vehicle sets are more reasonably priced.
* K & C products have a record of appreciating in value over time.
 
The price of a K & C figure is 29.00, while Conte and Britains are about 26.00 to 28.00, not that much of a difference when you get right down to it. Afew years ago, Conte and Britains figures were less expensive than they are are now, their prices have gone up recently so in the end, all three manufacturers are in the same ballpark.

Plus as Oz pointed out, K & C spikes in value as sets get retired, not sure the same can be said about the other two manufacturers.....
 

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