Query on World War One tunneling trivia and info (1 Viewer)

blaster

blaster

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Dear treefroggies,

I am trying to look for info on a couple of items related to the above topic, which has eluded me.

1. I am interested in modeling a British RE tunneller wearing proto equipment. I have some photos of the proto equipment but the finer details elude me. Are there any clear pictures of the proto equipment front and back and how it was attached to the wearer? Also, the skull helmet that is being worn. I can't find any clear pics of what this looks like.

2. I have built a very nice scale link Hudson tipper truck and intend to make a detailed diorama with this piece. I have read that it was used with medical units, the scale link instructions say that two people (presumably casualties) can be accommodated, transport units carrying picks, axes, spades etc. I know that it was the wrong kind of wagon to be used for close tunneling work. I just have never come across any pics showing its use at all. I have tried all the obvious key words and Wikipedia and all I have are many pics of Hudson tippers, narrow gauge and model trains.

Can any of you help with these requests?

Rgds victor
 
Hi Vic. Two more pics. Obtained these by looking at Google Images - and inputting Mine Rescue Equipment.

Probably modernised a tad on the earlier stuff - but gives an idea of how the kit was assembled/worn. Earlier photos are in the other piece posted. So a leap of fith is required to come between the two?

These are of Siebe Gormon Proto equipment - used from 1914-1960's. It is a re-breather type of equipment - and uses two small oxygen bottles attached at the rear of the rescuer. Does this help???? jb

protoequipment.jpg

proto02.jpg



Last one was labelled "Training Mine Rescue Service 1918" Note the WO2 Army type with them? - try google images for this? good luck.
Minerescuekit1918.jpg

Minerescuekit1918.jpg
 
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Hi JB,

The pic helps! It shows me the inside turned out of the proto equipment. Thanks. That soft liner worn on the head. That still is unclear to me. I had thot it a solid protective headgear used for tunneling work. What function did it serve?

Rgds vic
 
blaster said:
Hi JB,

The pic helps! It shows me the inside turned out of the proto equipment. Thanks. That soft liner worn on the head. That still is unclear to me. I had thot it a solid protective headgear used for tunneling work. What function did it serve?

Rgds vic
Click to expand...
A guess would be that the soft headgear had straps that were worn to secure the breathing apparatus to the users face, with the hard hat/helmet worn over it. In most self-contained breathing apparatus, the breathing mask is held to the face with head straps and the helmet is a seperate piece of equipment. -- Al
 
Hi Vic. I think Lancer is correct. If you have a read through the first piece mentioned "The Tunnelers Memorial" -check back on it - as there is a pic in it showing a tunneler about to descend the shaft - and he is wearing the cap (with no helmet) - attached to which by straps is the mouthpiece of the breathing apparatus and a proto kit. This one:
tcgw_16.jpg



Interestingly, all of the drawn diagrams in that piece show the men NOT wearing helmets of any sort. Maybe ( as in Tanks, for example) in restricted spaces such as tunnels, helmets were just an encumberance and a nuisance - so weren't worn???
 
Great question, Vic! This is a nice addition to our references.

John, I suspect that you're correct regarding the helmets, it makes sense.

What I like is the moustaches, very manly. We should bring them back.


Prost!
Brad
 
I had a "Zappatta" mustache back in the seventies Brad - but "La Commandante" wasn't keen - so it had to go! Now I have white hair (what's left of it), I'm afraid that I would look a bit like Santa Claus if I grew a full set!:D
 
I had one last about 10 years ago. I was playing the Major in a local production of Agatha Christie's "The Mousetrap", and I knew I absolutely had to grow a soup strainer to look the part. I used to grow a goatee, too, when I played ball, as part of my "game face", but I stopped that years ago, because it became too shot-through with white ^&grin

Prost!
Brad
 
OK, back in 1976, I joined the fire Service, and did a Proto course. The sets in the pictures are very similar to the ones we had. Ours had facemasks, but those had the old mouthpiece & nose clips. The ones in the pics also had two cylinders, as opposed to our single 66 gallon one. Very comfortable sets, one hour duration, not good for a hard working drill. Feel free to ask any questions you may have. See this site for some good close-ups, and some wearers from WW1 era.
http://www.therebreathersite.eu/Eurotek2010/Rebreathers/SiebeProtoMKIV/siebe_proto_mk_iv.html
 
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Dear Rediarmor,

Fantastic! Any pics or schematics of the liner, number of holes, straps? I would like to model all these finer details if possible.


To all the manly responders,

Hirsute looking at you...:). Thanlks also for the sensible explanation on the use of the liner (what was it called?). I have the Mil Illustrated article for context as well. Looks like I will be working out a typical RE tunnelling coy to model. Any ideas on specific personality,units and markings? I'll do a moustachioed figure.

Looks like a great toy soldier set idea for some makers...

Any ideas on the Hudson tipper? I only got a pic of three French soldiers manhandling a wagon (non-tipper) in the WWI PhotoHistory book by Haythornthwaite.

Rgds Victor
 
The pictures are far better than my memory :) The straps were adjustable, but this was never done, they were a "one size fits all", and the weight was evenly distributed on the front as well as the back. The set was hung on your shoulders, and the height wasn't that important. Although there was a waist belt, it didn't have to be tight, and the breathing bag could be disconnected from this belt, so it could be pushed in front whilst crawling. All fittings were either brass or chrome plated, and straps brown leather, the canvas was brown too, with the "Proto" stencilled on the front, I had never seen blue canvas until I saw those pictures.
I don't think I have any schematics, but I can guesstimate sizes of things from memory, so if you wanted to know say the length of a cylinder, we can come up with info pretty accurately. I will dig out my old manuals to see if there are any useful pictures, but if you Google Proto oxygen breathing apparatus, you will find hundreds.
Have fun.
 
Rediarmor said:
The pictures are far better than my memory :) The straps were adjustable, but this was never done, they were a "one size fits all", and the weight was evenly distributed on the front as well as the back. The set was hung on your shoulders, and the height wasn't that important. Although there was a waist belt, it didn't have to be tight, and the breathing bag could be disconnected from this belt, so it could be pushed in front whilst crawling. All fittings were either brass or chrome plated, and straps brown leather, the canvas was brown too, with the "Proto" stencilled on the front, I had never seen blue canvas until I saw those pictures.
I don't think I have any schematics, but I can guesstimate sizes of things from memory, so if you wanted to know say the length of a cylinder, we can come up with info pretty accurately. I will dig out my old manuals to see if there are any useful pictures, but if you Google Proto oxygen breathing apparatus, you will find hundreds.
Have fun.
Click to expand...

If there aren't any good pics of the head liner, I will model the piece without it. I like the concept of one size fits all, it sort of simplifies things for me from a modelling point of view.

Based on what I can figure out from the pics and the schematics, I have two more questions:-

1. there were 2 cylindrical cylinders which could be carried straped to the back. However, only one appears to be fitted out with the pipes and tubing. What was the other cylinder doing? Was it used as 2nd backup? Is it valid to model a figure with only one cylinder strapped on?

2. The schematic shows the tubing and pressure gauge on the left side. Most of all the pics show the fitup on the left side as well. However, there are two very clear pics of the Proto on a white dummy with the tubing and gauge on the right side. Is the fitup changeable from side to side?

Rgds Victor
 
Replying to part 1 of my own query, I just saw a pic that shows two cylinders strapped on the back, only one was fitted to the breathing apparatus.


Rgds victor
 
You are right, there was only one connected, and it could be turned off and swapped while breathing. As for the head liner, as far as I know, the mouthpiece was held in the teeth, noseclip fitted, and goggles for the eyes. As far as I was aware, no straps held the mouthpiece in, however I have come across this pic which offers one:-
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=pr...44&start=33&ndsp=54&ved=1t:429,r:83,s:0,i:318
The pressure gauge was always worn on the left side, it would reach over the wearers right shoulder, but the leather gauge holder was fitted on the left.
 
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Hi rediarmor,

Thanks for that very clear schematics and clarification.

I guess mustaches would really get in the way of that mouthpiece, eh?....:O

Rgds victor
 
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