Real Problems With NMA Tanks (1 Viewer)

[Old Tanker]

Saw some of my first NMA and King and Country stuff at the London toy soldier show. I was there with my wife and what a lot of fun and great people. I’ve built so many 1/35th Tamiya kits and really want to start collecting ( my eyes are going!). But Im a bit disappointed at the liberties taken with the authenticity of vehicles. Especially the New Model Army tanks.

Firstly the Marder: are the guys standing on boxes! Only when the commander and loader where standing on the two pop-down seats would they be that high, they did this while driving but not while loading. It seems the flooring on that model is totally wrong. Also Marder II was in North Africa but the Marder III never made it there it went into production right at the beginning of 1943 too late for the German Afrika Korps. So what gives with the DAK version?

The Tiger: This Tiger wouldn’t be able to fire a shot! The vision port holes are missing on the gun mantlet all together! That floors me, such a nice model and a detail as important as that are totally missing.

Anyhow I think I’ll look into some other manufacturers. The King and Country Tiger seems to be correct, at least on the web. I think the manufacturers of these pieces should take small details more seriously.

Harold

 

[Pierre]

Welcome Harold.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I am sure that Blake will take good notice of your observations.

Pierre.

 

[dkelly]

I'm interested in studying the Marader III NMA did. The Marader III did see service in North Africa. See page 70 of Rommel's Afrika Korps Tobruk to El Alamein, Osprey Battle Orders. In that book, there is a picture of 4 Marader III's in a desert oasis. Last month, I built Tamiya's Marader III kit (kit number 248). It had the Afrika Korps paint scheme and markings. I've posted a link to that kit below. Anyway, I do think -- from the pictures that I've seen -- that the Marader III that NMA did is different and possibly not accurate. For instance, it looks like the NMA Marader III has armor plates around the back of the Marader. In the Maraders in the Osprey book (and the Tamiya kit) that area is exposed. I understand there were variations on the Marader III so I'm not sure where this NMA example would fall. All that said, it is cool to see someone take a crack at this tank. I hope K&C does one too.

http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/35248marder/marder.htm

 

[The New Model Army]

Saw some of my first NMA and King and Country stuff at the London toy soldier show. I was there with my wife and what a lot of fun and great people. I’ve built so many 1/35th Tamiya kits and really want to start collecting ( my eyes are going!). But Im a bit disappointed at the liberties taken with the authenticity of vehicles. Especially the New Model Army tanks.

Firstly the Marder: are the guys standing on boxes! Only when the commander and loader where standing on the two pop-down seats would they be that high, they did this while driving but not while loading. It seems the flooring on that model is totally wrong. Also Marder II was in North Africa but the Marder III never made it there it went into production right at the beginning of 1943 too late for the German Afrika Korps. So what gives with the DAK version?

The Tiger: This Tiger wouldn’t be able to fire a shot! The vision port holes are missing on the gun mantlet all together! That floors me, such a nice model and a detail as important as that are totally missing.

Anyhow I think I’ll look into some other manufacturers. The King and Country Tiger seems to be correct, at least on the web. I think the manufacturers of these pieces should take small details more seriously.

Harold

Hello Harold
A couple of answers to your questions:

1. As explained to a couple of people that asked me about the size of the crew figures in comparison to the Marder at the show - the figures at the show were resin prototypes and larger than the pewter versions we will be producing so yes they do stand taller than the actual figures would have done. However this has already been resolved as we now go into production of the pewter models. It's nothing to do with the floorboards - sorry.
2. I actually described the 'Desert' Marder as a 'Mediterranean' Marder in one set of notes and 'Desert' in another set of notes - my mistake. The reason it has no DAK symbol on it is exactly for that reason - it is very debateable whether any Marder 3 M's were used in the desert but there were plenty in Italy. This dark yellow colour scheme was also seen in Russia and the western front. I still think that there are plenty of people out there that collect for the sheer enjoyment of this hobby and will mix this model with their desert sets without getting hung up on the little things - just like they did the CS Lynx. As the crews are sold separately you can use this vehicle on any front you wish - great isn't it!?
3. The vision port holes are missing off the gun mantlet - it's a small thing and it has certainly not put anybody else off what I think is a superb model. I don't think there is anybody out there who has produced an exact replica of a Tiger without some small detail missing including K&C (and they still make great vehicles which sell by the thousand) Sometimes when you go down to 1/30th scale something's do get missed off otherwise you would spend years going backwards and forwards rectifying every little mistake.

Best Regards

Blake

 

[The New Model Army]

I'm interested in studying the Marader III NMA did. The Marader III did see service in North Africa. See page 70 of Rommel's Afrika Korps Tobruk to El Alamein, Osprey Battle Orders. In that book, there is a picture of 4 Marader III's in a desert oasis. Last month, I built Tamiya's Marader III kit (kit number 248). It had the Afrika Korps paint scheme and markings. I've posted a link to that kit below. Anyway, I do think -- from the pictures that I've seen -- that the Marader III that NMA did is different and possibly not accurate. For instance, it looks like the NMA Marader III has armor plates around the back of the Marader. In the Maraders in the Osprey book (and the Tamiya kit) that area is exposed. I understand there were variations on the Marader III so I'm not sure where this NMA example would fall. All that said, it is cool to see someone take a crack at this tank. I hope K&C does one too.

http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/35248marder/marder.htm

Different version to ours - this one used a Russian Cannon - great looking vehicle though isn't she?!

Regards Blake

 

[Rob]

Hello Harold
A couple of answers to your questions:

1. As explained to a couple of people that asked me about the size of the crew figures in comparison to the Marder at the show - the figures at the show were resin prototypes and larger than the pewter versions we will be producing so yes they do stand taller than the actual figures would have done. However this has already been resolved as we now go into production of the pewter models. It's nothing to do with the floorboards - sorry.
2. I actually described the 'Desert' Marder as a 'Mediterranean' Marder in one set of notes and 'Desert' in another set of notes - my mistake. The reason it has no DAK symbol on it is exactly for that reason - it is very debateable whether any Marder 3 M's were used in the desert but there were plenty in Italy. This dark yellow colour scheme was also seen in Russia and the western front. I still think that there are plenty of people out there that collect for the sheer enjoyment of this hobby and will mix this model with their desert sets without getting hung up on the little things - just like they did the CS Lynx. As the crews are sold separately you can use this vehicle on any front you wish - great isn't it!?
3. The vision port holes are missing off the gun mantlet - it's a small thing and it has certainly not put anybody else off what I think is a superb model. I don't think there is anybody out there who has produced an exact replica of a Tiger without some small detail missing including K&C (and they still make great vehicles which sell by the thousand) Sometimes when you go down to 1/30th scale something's do get missed off otherwise you would spend years going backwards and forwards rectifying every little mistake.

Best Regards

Blake

I agree this is a tiny detail missing and certainly wouldn't put me off buying this excellant vehicle.

Rob

 

[red devil]

Welcome 'Old tanker' - most people wait a while before they start having a go at the manufacturers over the niff naff and trivia!
K&C regularly miss off the smoke dischargers on their Tiger tanks and use grey paint instead of the dark yellow on their late war winter tanks behind the national insignia. It has not stopped me buying one of their vehicles as I love them all.
I am certainly not going to get hung up on the 'Real Problems ' that you have and will be proudly displaying my NMA Marder with my DAK forces the minute it arrives. Might even use it with the new K&C FJ's for my new Monte Cassino dio!
Now if those Brit Paras Andy keeps promising would just turn up I could have a green devil versus red devil battle going on in my office!

Red

 

[Rob]

Welcome 'Old tanker' - most people wait a while before they start having a go at the manufacturers over the niff naff and trivia!
K&C regularly miss off the smoke dischargers on their Tiger tanks and use grey paint instead of the dark yellow on their late war winter tanks behind the national insignia. It has not stopped me buying one of their vehicles as I love them all.
I am certainly not going to get hung up on the 'Real Problems ' that you have and will be proudly displaying my NMA Marder with my DAK forces the minute it arrives. Might even use it with the new K&C FJ's for my new Monte Cassino dio!
Now if those Brit Paras Andy keeps promising would just turn up I could have a green devil versus red devil battle going on in my office!

Red

Hey Red,i reckon the next edition of Dispatches is the one we are waiting for.I can hear the whoosh of deploying canopies!.As for the NMA vehicles i think their superb.I also think the crews are getting better all the time and i think they are better than HB's figures now.

Rob

 

[red devil]

Well it will be a long wait is all I can say!
Have to agree I think NMA figures have just notched ahead of HB now and the prices are great. HB still looking good though on their new Sherman - I think the quality from all 3 manufacturers seems to be getting better and better.
Red

 

[Rob]

Absolutely,i think HB's Sherman is a fantastic tank.Its just their figs are a little thin and washed out for me.NMA's new figures look like they have life and depth to them.

Your right about dispatches too,going to be a loooooooooooooong wait!

Rob

 

[Old Tanker]

I think when modeling historic vehicles with this mindset: " I don't think there is anybody out there who has produced an exact replica of a Tiger without some small detail missing " is not very good for the hobby. The vision holes at the front of the mantlet of the Tiger are a critical part of the armor. Rushing a piece into production is not the way, but patience and respect for the original is. But I do think your efforts to bring cheap models to people even if they are wrong is good.

Also the tracks on the model you showed of the prototype look seperate and the production piece tracks were kind of melted onto the vehicle, in fact they both look so different. Is the first one a Tamiya kit that the Chinese use to hand sculpt the final one?, how did you make the first one, interesting process.

Harold

 

[Rob]

I'm guessing Blake didn't make the tank with that mindset,i think what he's saying is that 'now that its done' sort of thing.I don't think anyone from any company would intentionally set out to do that.I also think Blake does a lot of research on his subjects.We do have to except that sometimes these things happen,after all we are all human.

Rob

 

[The New Model Army]

I think when modeling historic vehicles with this mindset: " I don't think there is anybody out there who has produced an exact replica of a Tiger without some small detail missing " is not very good for the hobby. The vision holes at the front of the mantlet of the Tiger are a critical part of the armor. Rushing a piece into production is not the way, but patience and respect for the original is. But I do think your efforts to bring cheap models to people even if they are wrong is good.

Also the tracks on the model you showed of the prototype look seperate and the production piece tracks were kind of melted onto the vehicle, in fact they both look so different. Is the first one a Tamiya kit that the Chinese use to hand sculpt the final one?, how did you make the first one, interesting process.
Harold

Somewhat bemused here - second post and all you seem interested in doing is nit picking - can't see that the vision hole is that critical in all honesty but whatever flicks your switch! Have you found another manufacturer out there in 1/30th scale that has this tiny vision hole added to all their tanks right from the word go? However point noted we will make every effort to add this in future just to keep 'Old Tanker' happy. As for rushing the project - well what would you know? We have been working on this particular model since January so not much rushing going on here. As for patience and respect for the original - I have never heard so much pish in all my life!
No note of apology from you regarding the other observations you were incorrect on either?
You seem to know a lot about the manufacturing process - if I did not know better I'd say you were hiding behind 'Old Tanker' and were actually somebody else - but who could be that devious? Maybe we should get Shannon to check the IP address out here - see where it leads to?

 

[gk5717]

Yesterday I preordeed 10 NMA sets from George. But now after reading Old Tankers critique I am going to cancel the order, NOT!
I,m thankful that guys like Blake are makeing all these choices available to us 1-30th collectors.
Tanker go back to modeling!
Gary

 

[johngambale]

Corrections on NMA MARDER's!

Hello Guys! OK, this is from the Archives of WW2 Desert Warfare N.Africa 1941-43! The MARDER IIIM, and the MARDER II, were both used in N.Africa! My Pictures in ALL, of my Huge collection of N.Africa WW2 has shown these Vehicles! Stop picking on Blake, otherwise Tony Soprano, and Pauly, will pay you a Visit! Blake keep bring on the SP's ! Thankyou, Johntoys! CIAO

 

[nmrocks]

Tanker,
Being reletively new to the Toy Soldier Field, I would give the advice of, pointing out concerns is good, However, toy soldiers is not modeling.
I would venture to say that such great companies as Tamiya etc. first offerings or 1st years productions were not the crisp, historically acurate versions we see today.
Toy soldier vehicles are going thru an evolution of sorts, from real toys to historically accurate representations and it is a "process".
Nothing in life is perfect the in the beginning, and NMA is in the beginning.
Frankly, NMA has a very impresive and admirable record for a start from scratch producer.
They will improve, you simply must recognize there is a learning curve, regardless, in the toy soldier field, they have nothing to be ashamed of and stand shoulder to shoulder with the other manufacturers in the field.
My last piece of advice, if the vehicles do not meet your satisfaction levels, simply avoid them until they do.
Ray

 

[Capitolron]

I agree with Ray !

NMA is making great Toy Soldiers Vechiles and they will get better as the years go by - JUST LIKE K&C DID !!

King and Country figures from 1999 compared to today is like night and day in improvements. Not everyone starts off totally perfect.

Blake is bring great additions to all of our collections.

 

[Wraith]

The REAL problem with NMA tanks, is that they are actually pretty neat. And reasonably priced. And with different variations. And different crew members. And in many cases, vehicles that have not been done in this scale before.

And I've only got a limited budget

Which means that REAL difficult decisions have to be made as to which ones to get.

Simon

 

[aujj65]

The REAL problem with NMA tanks, is that they are actually pretty neat. And reasonably priced. And with different variations. And different crew members. And in many cases, vehicles that have not been done in this scale before.

And I've only got a limited budget

Which means that REAL difficult decisions have to be made as to which ones to get.

Simon

Simon.

Couldn't agree more with you It was the NMA vehicles which have got me deviating from collecting K&C Napoleonics etc.

Jeff

 

[Capitolron]

Me Too !! :d