Red Tails Opens Friday (2 Viewers)

by all means see the film,,effects of all kinds are marvelous,,politics ,,cliches aside,,war films,,history ,,are a negative with that industry,,a sad thing as its gotten to the point that anything can be shown and done,,what would "pearl harbor " have been strictly made as a tora tora type epic,,my critique about the effects these days is the video flashing strobe lite pace they seem to think is normal,,those effects at a lingering pace would be marvelous,,
 
Mitch said:
Rutledge..

I don't really think its a morality lesson is it?? I think its a history lesson for sure. If white people in that time behaved disgracefully towards fellow countrymen because they were black then it should be shown and, what I liked from the last TA film which, Al and I discussed was that this was shown and, done well.

If we look at race relations in the world and the US and UK maybe, your wrong, many don't get it and, many don't value or appreciate what our non white countrymen did in the wars of WWI and WWII. I think, it would be naive to believe, sadly, that race was not an issue in this film and its financial support.

There can be no doubt that they overcome appalling treatment and, were better pilots for it and, showed that in their flying record
Mitch
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In an era in of major stars such as Will Smith, Denzel Washington, Halle Berry, Cuba Gooding, Samuel Jackson, etc., all black, you BELIEVE Hollywood still makes decisions based on the race of the actors and not the financial viability of the project in question? Well, I don't KNOW the answer, nor do you. But I know business, and what drives business decisions, and it's the pursuit of profit. Not whether it will "educate" the masses (about some subject matter that has already been explored in a previous film and multiple documentaries), but whether it has better profit making ability than the ideas presented by other folks coming in their office everyday looking for funding for THEIR move. Only those naive about business would presume otherwise.

I would suggest that, if the racism made the TA BETTER pilots than they would have been otherwise, perhaps the US military should subject all pilots to similar treatment, today, so as to raise their skill level?
Or has "rough treatment" been part and parcel of military training since the Roman era? It's funny how the world can be shaped so differently depending on which lens we choose to view it through.
 
Rutledge said:
The reality is, economics drives these decisions, not race. Hollywood, which I loathe personally, is about making money. If Hollywood believed the movie would generate profits with green people in it, they would make the movie tomorrow.

It has nothing to do with what the TA did or did not do for the. US. It's about whether the movie would sell tickets. Spike Lee made a mostly black WWII movie a few years back. I saw it. It wasnt bad, but not good either. I don't think it was a money maker. One strike and you're out in Hollywood.

Plus, frankly, watching yet another film in which white people behave badly toward backs because of racial feelings, well its a bit worn as.a morality lesson. We get it.
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Sure, Money actually does drive decisions in an industry, why should the movie industry be any different? War movies can't all be "Gods and Generals" where the slavery was "just swell."
 
Rutledge said:
In an era in of major stars such as Will Smith, Denzel Washington, Halle Berry, Cuba Gooding, Samuel Jackson, etc., all black, you BELIEVE Hollywood still makes decisions based on the race of the actors and not the financial viability of the project in question? Well, I don't KNOW the answer, nor do you. But I know business, and what drives business decisions, and it's the pursuit of profit. Not whether it will "educate" the masses (about some subject matter that has already been explored in a previous film and multiple documentaries), but whether it has better profit making ability than the ideas presented by other folks coming in their office everyday looking for funding for THEIR move. Only those naive about business would presume otherwise.

I would suggest that, if the racism made the TA BETTER pilots than they would have been otherwise, perhaps the US military should subject all pilots to similar treatment, today, so as to raise their skill level?
Or has "rough treatment" been part and parcel of military training since the Roman era? It's funny how the world can be shaped so differently depending on which lens we choose to view it through.
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It's that the time period was marked by racism and certaining polite condescension toward "coloreds". The irony is that for a nation that pledges for freedom and justice for all treated service people extra rough on and off the training ground because of skin color. Petty acts of prejudice may not have been official policy but tolerated. I read a collection of articles from YANK, the WWII era soldiers magazine and one letter to the editor complained of seeing german POWs under guard, being served in a Southern eatry while black US servicemen had to go to the back door. Nice. The Tuskeggee story would be in a bubble of white "feel good" if the racism was missing.
 
Scott said:
It's that the time period was marked by racism and certaining polite condescension toward "coloreds". The irony is that for a nation that pledges for freedom and justice for all treated service people extra rough on and off the training ground because of skin color. Petty acts of prejudice may not have been official policy but tolerated. I read a collection of articles from YANK, the WWII era soldiers magazine and one letter to the editor complained of seeing german POWs under guard, being served in a Southern eatry while black US servicemen had to go to the back door. Nice. The Tuskeggee story would be in a bubble of white "feel good" if the racism was missing.
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I have never heard of such outlandish things!!! You mean there was actually discrimination expressed by whites toward blacks during the time of World War II?? This is shocking news. Someone also recently mentioned to me the idea of "slavery", or some such, that was supposedly practiced in the 19th century, also by whites toward blacks. I frankly did not believe it, as everyone knows the history of our country is perfect and our ancestors were paragons of this same perfection. That being said, I have been living under a rather large rock outside of Atlanta, known as Stone Mountain, so its possible I could have missed the introduction of different perspectives on the nature of our history....:rolleyes2:

If, by some small chance, there is a scintilla of truth in these outrageous claims, I can only hope that some of these wrongs are righted through legislation that favors those who suffered historically. Against all hope or posssibility, I would also beseech that attention be brought to these matters through a slew of movies, books, tv shows and miniserioes, so that the masses are informed about what has surely been kept hidden from view and never, ever discussed openly!

Now, back under my rock! ^&grin^&grin
 
Rutledge said:
I have never heard of such outlandish things!!! You mean there was actually discrimination expressed by whites toward blacks during the time of World War II?? This is shocking news. Someone also recently mentioned to me the idea of "slavery", or some such, that was supposedly practiced in the 19th century, also by whites toward blacks. I frankly did not believe it, as everyone knows the history of our country is perfect and our ancestors were paragons of this same perfection. That being said, I have been living under a rather large rock outside of Atlanta, known as Stone Mountain, so its possible I could have missed the introduction of different perspectives on the nature of our history....:rolleyes2:

If, by some small chance, there is a scintilla of truth in these outrageous claims, I can only hope that some of these wrongs are righted through legislation that favors those who suffered historically. Against all hope or posssibility, I would also beseech that attention be brought to these matters through a slew of movies, books, tv shows and miniserioes, so that the masses are informed about what has surely been kept hidden from view and never, ever discussed openly!

Now, back under my rock! ^&grin^&grin
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It looked like the obvious needed to be restated, yet again. So I did.
 
I go to the movies for one reason and that is to be entertained. I will NEVER go to a movie for the reason of having a moral lesson taught to me or to try to redeem my soul. (That is a lost cause)
I saw “Red Tails” the other night and I loved it. It is a rarity that a movie reviewer (or his review) will affect my decision to go to see a movie. Actually, this forum might hold a bit greater influence.
The HBO version (Tuskegee Airmen) may hold a greater degree of Historical Accuracy, but this is a fun movie, good action and passable dialog and acting. Anyone who would think that Hollywood gives more than a 2 second thought towards the historical accuracy is fooling himself. I am an American Rev time frame collector, but I really enjoyed “The Patriot.” Was there one fact that was right with The Patriot?
Oh well, maybe my standards are very, very low. But, I guess, that way I am never disappointed.
Larry
 
Scott said:
It looked like the obvious needed to be restated, yet again. So I did.
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Yes you did. I am sure we are all grateful to you for ensuring that the innumerable crimes and injustices perpetrated by the American people throughout its tortuous and vicious history of colonization and abuse of "others" are always top of mind. Unquestionably, such things define us more so than anything else we have ever done, and are a vital reminder that, collectively, western civilization owes a huge debt to the rest of the world that can never be repaid.
 
"...I would suggest that, if the racism made the TA BETTER pilots than they would have been otherwise, perhaps the US military should subject all pilots to similar treatment, today, so as to raise their skill level? "

No and no.
 
Larry Allen said:
I go to the movies for one reason and that is to be entertained. I will NEVER go to a movie for the reason of having a moral lesson taught to me or to try to redeem my soul. (That is a lost cause)
I saw “Red Tails” the other night and I loved it. It is a rarity that a movie reviewer (or his review) will affect my decision to go to see a movie. Actually, this forum might hold a bit greater influence.
The HBO version (Tuskegee Airmen) may hold a greater degree of Historical Accuracy, but this is a fun movie, good action and passable dialog and acting. Anyone who would think that Hollywood gives more than a 2 second thought towards the historical accuracy is fooling himself. I am an American Rev time frame collector, but I really enjoyed “The Patriot.” Was there one fact that was right with The Patriot?
Oh well, maybe my standards are very, very low. But, I guess, that way I am never disappointed.
Larry
Click to expand...

Well of course Larry. Movie are entertainment but many of our folk tales and myths are supposed to teach some lesson. I'm hoping to see Red Tails as it looks like the slam bang war movies of the 40s /50s. Those movies usually did have some lesson of bravery, friendship or sacrifice.

I have seen European historical films that were far closer in clothing and setting. Most of them were also entertaining as well. Indian history films will have the characters break out in a song and dance number. See LOC (Line Of Control) and imagine We Were Soldiers with songs.


The Patriot gets some of the types of combat "right" plus better costuming, and has some good messages of family and sacrifice but it does have Mel Gibson's taste for masochism and hate for the British.
 
Scott said:
"...I would suggest that, if the racism made the TA BETTER pilots than they would have been otherwise, perhaps the US military should subject all pilots to similar treatment, today, so as to raise their skill level? "

No and no.
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In literary terms, it's called irony. More generally, sarcasm. They can be tough to recognize for those not familiar with typical "guy talk".
 
you know, when i made the comment about what Lucas said about lack of buy in from the studios, I have to admit I was mis-informed. I had assumed that the movie was good and done in a similar type of, dare I say, love as Saving Private Ryan (tho that was a conglomeration of various wartime accounts). I didn't realize that the movie was fairly plastic.

Maybe Speilberg should have done it.
 
I haven't seen it but here are some excerpts from the New York Times review

****

“Patriotic,” “jingoistic,” “old-fashioned,” “corny” and “inspirational for teenage boys.” Those are the words of George Lucas, the executive producer of “Red Tails,” describing his whiz-bang action film about African-American fighter pilots in World War II on “The Daily Show With Jon Stewart.”

“It is exactly like ‘Flying Leathernecks,’ only this one was held up for release since 1942, when it was shot,” Mr. Lucas said. In structure and tone, “Red Tails” proudly harks back to the 1940s and ’50s, when good guys were good, and bad guys bad.

To say that this live-action comic book lives up to Mr. Lucas’s description is not a wholehearted endorsement. Are teenage boys as naïve today as they were 60 or more years ago? And much of the dialogue is groaningly clunky. But so it was back then.

The mostly happy ending is as satisfying as a snack of milk and cookies after a ninth grade softball game.

***

Doesn't sound particularly interesting. Based on this review and what others have said, not to mention, the three episodes of Star Wars that he made a few years back, it sounds like moviemaking has by passed George Lucas.
 
"Why, I ought to pound you!"

Dialog like this..? "Say, ain't you the guy that...?

"What the....?"

"You wanna knuckle sandwich?"
 
Scott said:
Well of course Larry. Movie are entertainment but many of our folk tales and myths are supposed to teach some lesson. I'm hoping to see Red Tails as it looks like the slam bang war movies of the 40s /50s. Those movies usually did have some lesson of bravery, friendship or sacrifice..
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I bought a DVD with about 20 war movies from the 40s and 50s. They are hardly slam bang compared with todays standards.

Scott said:
I have seen European historical films that were far closer in clothing and setting. Most of them were also entertaining as well. Indian history films will have the characters break out in a song and dance number. See LOC (Line Of Control) and imagine We Were Soldiers with songs.
.
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We Were Soldiers is an average movie - at best. With singing soldiers it would be intolerable. Indian cinema has never caught on here, with one or two exceptions. I wonder why? :tongue::tongue:

Scott said:
The Patriot gets some of the types of combat "right" plus better costuming, and has some good messages of family and sacrifice but it does have Mel Gibson's taste for masochism and hate for the British.
Click to expand...

The Patriot was a fun shoot em up set during the Revolutionary War. Good guys versus bad guys, winner take all. Junk movie food basically. If Red Tails were just that, fine. But its not.

Clint Eastwood made two excellent war movies that attempted to balance out the perspective. They were both well done. You still cheered the US, of course, but you could at least understand from where the Japanese were coming.

Lucas attmpted no such complexity with Red Tails. He hasnt half the story telling or movie making skills of Eastwood.
 
A mission my fathers B17 flew was his plane alone,,returning across the adriatic towards italy,,leaking gas and other problems ,a single fighter appeared at a distance,,stayed there awhile,,my dad radio -gunner did a morse recognition on the ftr net which it answered,,quite the radio discipline in the actual times,,the ac aproached a bit with the guns on the bomber tracking ,,he then did a wing up showing the silouette of a mustang,,another bit of morse and the P51 did a huge left turn and was on the wing very quickly..The 332 gp fighter stayed with them until the coastline,,a few plane to plane comments ,,he speaking in his correct military college terms,,leaving he did a max power hard right with a final,,"and Ill see yall boys later'
 
bromhead said:
A mission my fathers B17 flew was his plane alone,,returning across the adriatic towards italy,,leaking gas and other problems ,a single fighter appeared at a distance,,stayed there awhile,,my dad radio -gunner did a morse recognition on the ftr net which it answered,,quite the radio discipline in the actual times,,the ac aproached a bit with the guns on the bomber tracking ,,he then did a wing up showing the silouette of a mustang,,another bit of morse and the P51 did a huge left turn and was on the wing very quickly..The 332 gp fighter stayed with them until the coastline,,a few plane to plane comments ,,he speaking in his correct military college terms,,leaving he did a max power hard right with a final,,"and Ill see yall boys later'
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Thank for sharing that story with us . From what I've read they were the best sq for sticking with the bombers on escort mission instead of chasing kills
 
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