Shame On The Manufacturer & The Seller! (2 Viewers)

[Sans Culotte]

Just to attempt to return the argument to the abstract rather than the more emotionally charged discussion, the description of the 'freedom defenders' is actually paraphrasing the ideal of a free society. One of the real difficulties of living in a society that is both free and functioning is that at a practical level we must all embrace hypocrisy at some level. I believe in a free society but also accept that censorship must protect the vulnerable. The difficulty of who decides and how is always problematic and the issue here is a demaraction problem - where is the line drawn at what is acceptable? Tour buses visit concentration camps, cigarettes are still freely available, boxing is an Olympic sport, the right to purchase an AK-47 - where is the line drawn is always an emotional point.

As an associated, though quite different point, as a newbie two things in these discussions always intrigue me:

1. The male abhorence of rape but our 'acceptance' of violence. Censorship of TV and movies have always been stricter on issues of sex than violence.

2. The repetitive discussions of the morality of certain toy soldiers against the background of complaints about rising prices brought on by Chinese factory workers who in their greedy view of the world aspire to the lifestyle that I take for granted.

I do suggest, respectfully, that the 'if the shoe fits' as a response to a calm and rational comment in a thread you started might, for me, have crossed the line. Again, that is me, and people are free to disagree.

For the record, however, I wouldn't buy the figure, wouldn't keep it if was given to me, wouldn't sell it and do not understand why someone would buy it.

But that's me!

Jack

I do believe that the line was already crossed by the replies of some of the Forum members who defended the depictions of rape. Maybe Down Under your society as a whole, and its politicians in particular, take less of a cavalier attitude toward rape than I've found the case to be in this country. Time and time again, just as a classroom teacher, I had to work with rape victims. Imagine my disgust, all these years later, when I found rape for sale on Ebay's toy soldier site. Where would you, given my own experiences, draw the line?

 

[Toy Soldier Brigade]

As far as I am concerned, you have crossed the line as to insinuation against fellow forum members, who choose to have a different opinion than you. If you have a problem with the offending figure, you are able to file a complant on Ebay. That would have been a hero of your convictions moment. But you instead chose instead to be the poor victim bystander, gutless to stand up, but not so small as to try to egg the crowd on to cry out in shock. It did not work and so you whine against the crowd and try to paint some shame on us. Nice try, but it seems the problem is with you and Ebay. It always has been. Go bother them..Michael

Well said, this thread is another train wreck. This guys opinion reminds me of out current political culture. It's my way or the highway. What's next are you going to tell me I can't buy one of these.

 

[Jack]

I do believe that the line was already crossed by the replies of some of the Forum members who defended the depictions of rape. Maybe Down Under your society as a whole, and its politicians in particular, take less of a cavalier attitude toward rape than I've found the case to be in this country. Time and time again, just as a classroom teacher, I had to work with rape victims. Imagine my disgust, all these years later, when I found rape for sale on Ebay's toy soldier site. Where would you, given my own experiences, draw the line?

As for our disagreement, I have re-read my post and cannot help but feel that we are, in fact, quite close to agreement. Terrible figures, without doubt, in my mind. Yet it is a polemic act to post a thread on a discussion forum concerning a topic that you believe is actually not open to discussion. Unless everyone agreed fully with your obviously quite passionate views, there was always going to be some ill feeling. The topic was never 'is rape wrong', rather it was one that drew different views about censorship, individual freedom and personal taste. I cannot find any evidence in any of the posts that suggest forum members are cavalier about what is, clearly, a heinous crime. We work in a flawed world and to safeguard vital freedoms some less than tasteful things (I speak, obviously, of the figures, not ther act) are protected under the same umbrella. It is unfortunate, but what other way is there.

As for Forum responses, some posters, me included, float around the Forum, and find a topic of abstract interest, post a point of view and wait for a discussion. I was in a discussion yesterday about whether Nazism was a religion. I have strong academic views, but not passionate, personal ones. To me it was an abstract discussion on a point of academic interest. Though I recognised this was a bit more passionate, I posted a point of view to initiate a discussion. I'm home sick with the flu and looking for diversion. You have made this a very, very personal thread. The fact that your opening premise is, I believe, correct does not justify some of your later assertions.

 

[thebritfarmer]

I don't see how this is any different that what is depicted on tv or in the movies. Just because we are not saying...........shock.....horror !!! they shouldn't be made...........down with the seller..........does not make us pro-rape and I am a little offended by the fact that you seem to think that it does.

 

[MapleLeaf]

After seeing this i don't want to hear anybody
complaining about LAH
If u have to sell these figures to make a dollar
u have to be a sick **

 

[DMNamiot]

Ok San Culotte,

While it appears that everyone agrees with you about this figure it also appears that they dont agree with your notion that something should be censured or banned. This is also fine because we have a Constitution that protects us from the sort of banning/burning behaviour seen in some countries. So I ask what will you ban next? Books that you dont like such as Tandia by Bryce Courtenay that discuses Brutal Rape in detail and the results or perhaps you want to see all movies banned/burned that show this? I guess I need to remind you that in the US we have a Constitution that protects this "speech" and even if we dont like it or are repulsed by it it is still allowed. I am reminded of this daily and I have to remind myself that I took an oath to support and defend that right. You are perfectly correct to say its terrible to have or make this figure but you dont have the right to insult members of this forum simply because they disagree with you on whether it should be produced and sold. Please take a few minutes to calm down and remember that everyone is entitled to their opinions and we dont all need to agree all of the time to act like civilized adults.

Now a warning to everyone else, we are treading very close to several areas that are not allowed on this forum so please keep that in mind as you make further posts.

Dave

 

[Sans Culotte]

Ok San Culotte,

While it appears that everyone agrees with you about this figure it also appears that they dont agree with your notion that something should be censured or banned. This is also fine because we have a Constitution that protects us from the sort of banning/burning behaviour seen in some countries. So I ask what will you ban next? Books that you dont like such as Tandia by Bryce Courtenay that discuses Brutal Rape in detail and the results or perhaps you want to see all movies banned/burned that show this? I guess I need to remind you that in the US we have a Constitution that protects this "speech" and even if we dont like it or are repulsed by it it is still allowed. I am reminded of this daily and I have to remind myself that I took an oath to support and defend that right. You are perfectly correct to say its terrible to have or make this figure but you dont have the right to insult members of this forum simply because they disagree with you on whether it should be produced and sold. Please take a few minutes to calm down and remember that everyone is entitled to their opinions and we dont all need to agree all of the time to act like civilized adults.

Now a warning to everyone else, we are treading very close to several areas that are not allowed on this forum so please keep that in mind as you make further posts.

Dave

Like yourself, I took an oath in the 1960s to support the Constitution & served with two fighter Groups during the Vietnam War. Just so you know. In my post #16, I stated where I was coming from, where I felt others were coming from, and felt that our views were not reconcilable. I left it at that, and assumed that others would have, as well. But things weren't left at that. That happens on this Forum, even when less sensitive topics, such as whether or not K&C is the best model maker around, and I should have known better. I do apologize for my part in any ensuing backbiting, but not for my deeply held personal feelings about rape & its many depictions. I do, by the way, have deeply held convictions about a number of topics, but they weren't the subject of this thread, nor will I be drawn into discussions about whatever else I do or do not believe. Where the commercialization of rape is concerned, nothing seems to be out-of-bounds and I regret the passage of an earlier era that did, at least to me, seem to have some basic parameters that I understood.

 

[wadepat]

Gentle Friends,

This discussion seems to have run its course and all points of few have been expressed. Therefore, I am locking the thread and deleting the link to the eBay auction.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat