Should you wash your plastic figures? (1 Viewer)

[The General]

I can remember reading on a plastic toy soldier box once:"For best results wash figures first with soapy water before painting."

I never have and it hasn't seemed to have made any difference.

Maybe I'm just a little paranoid about the state of my armies having just read the Plastic deterioration thread.

I would appreciate the thoughts of fellow plastics painters.

Cheers.

 

[Shiloh]

Hi General like you I painted several without washing with no problem but then I ran into one where the fusion primer failed to stick at all. It came off in shreds. After that I wash them in dawn dish soap and scrub them with a tooth brush. It takes off the oils and byproducts of production. It's always a good ideal to scrub them even just to remove the oils and salts deposited from handling. I have even heard of some folks applying thinned glue then primer then painting. I have not resorted to this yet, but then again the problem figure remains unpainted. The important thing with plastics actually any toy soldiers keep them dry cool and avoid uv exposure from sunlight also remember to put on a good sealer when finished. My problem is I never seem to finish them

 

[The General]

but then I ran into one where the fusion primer failed to stick at all.

Yikes!

I have another confession to make.

I usually grab 10 figures I want to paint, dust them, then start painting.
No washing. No primer. 10 years on and no problems.

I hope I won't be regretting this in years to come.

 

[Wraith]

I guess it depends on how much you handle them.
I wash them in soapy water first to remove any traces left of the mold release agent.

Priming them helps IMO, as it gives the paints a good base to key to, as well as helping to identify any bits that still require trimming. I use auto plastic primer spray. I prefer grey, others use white or black instead - personal preference.

Simon

 

[The General]

I guess it depends on how much you handle them.

You're probably right Simon.

I paint.
I store in rows in covered shelves.
I admire.
Very little handling.

If I was to put them all in a diaroma I would probably need a quarter size Rugby League field to set them all up in.

I've always just assumed that primer was only necessary for tin, lead or other metal figures not plastic.

The other thing is that I figured a layer of primer plus a layer of enamel paint would reduce the sharpness of a figure. I mean like creases in a soldiers' trousers may become less defined with each layer or coating.

 

[Leadmen]

I have figures over 15 years old that show no paint loss. I always wash my figures with a toothbrush and dish soap. I also trim any flash lines then I spray plastic coat on the figures and the next day I spray matte white primer. After painting, I finish with a matte varnish spray on the figures. Leadmen

 

[jac28]

My method of painting plastic or metal figures is the same and is similar to what has already been mentioned:

Trim off any flash..

Putty any seams (where individual parts have assembled - this step is necessary on some of the new plastic figures - as well as metal)

Wash the plastic figures in soapy water.

Prime them with grey primer (my favorite is Armory Grey Primer) - I usally spray 2 - 3 LIGHT coats - letting the coats dry to the touch before applying the next. That will cover the figure nicely without globbing the paint and obsuring detail.

Paint away....

Spray a coating of clear varnish - I use flat.. and then brush on gloss varnish for sword blades, etc - if wanted.

I'm not at all worried about how long our plastic figures will last. I collect mainly vintage Marx figures (which I don't paint) which have been in existence for 50+ years. As others have mentioned care needs to be taken when storing.

Jim

 

[kilted vampire]

After seeing some of my figures blown up on the screen, I have decided to prime in black. If I miss a piece it just looks like shadow. Yes it is true I need more coats to get the brightness ion some colors I am looking for, but that is for me to do. As far as washing goes some of the plastics are fine if you do not others like AIP and the rubbery Conte figures need to be washed and scrubbed. I hate watching all my work peel off because I was lazy.

 

[jac28]

After seeing some of my figures blown up on the screen, I have decided to prime in black. If I miss a piece it just looks like shadow. Yes it is true I need more coats to get the brightness ion some colors I am looking for, but that is for me to do. As far as washing goes some of the plastics are fine if you do not others like AIP and the rubbery Conte figures need to be washed and scrubbed. I hate watching all my work peel off because I was lazy.

I agree that black primer is great for creating shadows... but my eyes are getting tired or something - and it's difficult for me to see the details of the figure when it primed entirely in black.. A decent compromise is to prime the figure in gray and then cover the entire figure with a black wash.. the black pigment will collect in the deeper (shadowed) areas - while the rest of the figure won't be so dark - so it might save you a coat or two of your bright colors.. maybe a technique you'll want to experiment with.

Jim

 

[plasmapulse]

A lot of the peeling has to do with the soft figures' material. It simply won't hold paint. It sticks to it, but you can scrape it right off. It won't handle mechanical abuse very well. People try to counter the 'chipping' caused by handling and bending by priming the figure with thinned white glue as mentioned above and even use it as a varnish afterwards, to keep the finish flexible. Softplastic wargamers have a lot of discussion on this topic and it seems to work (never tried it).

Washing will degrease the figure and make paint to stick, but it won't make the finish a lot sturdier (on soft plastic). Not handling them seems to be the best you can do.

Washing does help a lot on metal figures and hard plastic figures.

I have painted soft plastics with Vallejo acrylics (and nothing else) after degreasing them. The paint on my gladiators' nipple will rub off if I just touch it.

I now mostly use thinned enamel paint as primer (as it won't clutter the detail), paint with acrylics and varnish with acrylics. It holds but still flakes when bent. I use the same method on metal figures and I don't have any problems there when handling them.

In the light of preservation and general enjoyment, I decided to concentrate on metals as almost everything is better on them (cleaning, filing, painting, life expectancy). Everything except cost .

 

[kilted vampire]

I agree that black primer is great for creating shadows... but my eyes are getting tired or something - and it's difficult for me to see the details of the figure when it primed entirely in black.. A decent compromise is to prime the figure in gray and then cover the entire figure with a black wash.. the black pigment will collect in the deeper (shadowed) areas - while the rest of the figure won't be so dark - so it might save you a coat or two of your bright colors.. maybe a technique you'll want to experiment with.

Jim

That is an interesting idea. I was going to dismiss the idea entirely and suggest using more light. I have two that I use one with a magnifying lense that I almost never use. Then read the whole thing and thought that this was a good idea to try. Still have a lot of black paint though Will try this out next time I run out of black

 

[plasmapulse]

That is an interesting idea. I was going to dismiss the idea entirely and suggest using more light. I have two that I use one with a magnifying lense that I almost never use. Then read the whole thing and thought that this was a good idea to try. Still have a lot of black paint though Will try this out next time I run out of black

Didn't the Lt. do this (in brown) on the minimen(?) matte figures he painted?

 

[jac28]

That is an interesting idea. I was going to dismiss the idea entirely and suggest using more light. I have two that I use one with a magnifying lense that I almost never use. Then read the whole thing and thought that this was a good idea to try. Still have a lot of black paint though Will try this out next time I run out of black

I have plenty of light in my work area... and I'm near-sighted, so that's not the problem.. It just seems to be more difficult for me to pick out details on an entirely black figure..

There have been a lot of great suggestions on painting figures and I guess the best advice is use the methods that work best for you. I like hearing how other guys work so I can try out different ways of doing things, what paint to use, etc. then I can decide which works best for me...

Jim

 

[maloyalo]

Plastic deterioration boy here. I am not a real expert. I only have an associates degree.

Unpainted plastic figures

Careful washing with water and dish detergent will remove any oil or chemical residue on the surface from the manufacturing process. I just put in sink with warm water and soap and kind of agitate it. Using a toothbrush or scrub pad will do a better job but does put little scratches instantly on the plastic (you have to look close!). I don't think it does any real harm, for painting figures, but if you are not painting it and its more valuable like a original Marx 60 SP Roman I wouldn't use any scrubbers. A soft cloth can be used, but its harder to do. Heat is enemy of plastic like UV, so I try to minimalize heating. I do use hot water to straighten bent weapons and such, but again usually only once or twice.

No paint, primer or coating currently in exsistance will bond to polyethylene or polypropylene (the most common plastic used for classic toy soldiers). But most of the techniques mentioned will make the paint sturdier and hold up to smaller bumps and chafes (hopefully!). One good thing about these plastics is stability, which means they don't leak much chemically.

Some plastic soldiers are different materials like PVC (generally the softer and has a more noticable smell) and Polystyrene (harder). The only negative chemical reaction I know about so far is using enamel paint on PVC. They don't mix well & the surface will become sticky and often stay that way. PVC is a noticable chemical leaker, so you can get oily residue back from inside the figure basically.

 

[theBaron]

I'll chime in with my 2 cents.

When I was a kid and built models, including painting Airfix Napoleonics, Romans and Britons, I never knew from washing figures first. "Mold release compounds? What're those?" And I recently recovered some of my Tamiya armor models from my parents' attic, where they have been alternately baking and freezing since 1982. The decals were flaking off some of them, glue joints had deteriorated, but the paint looks just as it did when they left my bench.

Having said that, as I've gotten back into scale modeling, I picked up the tip of washing a kit first in warm water, with a drop or two of dish detergent in it. I dip the sprues and use an old, soft toothbrush to scrub ever-so-gently, then dry the sprues on paper toweling. At this stage, I'm still using Tamiya paints in spray cans to paint, which I've always found to be pretty forgiving. And I use automotive primer first, which seems to bite pretty well in plastic or metal. But I do have an airbrush, and am getting ready to learn to use it. I expect that some of the paints and lacquers that a more advanced modeler will use will probably work better, if the surface is as clean as possible at the start.

Plus, just as with interior detail in a 1/48th scale B-17, I know it's there. I feel better now, knowing that the surface is as clean as I can get (that's the Monk method of modeling). Plus, I enjoy the time spent cleaning the parts, looking at the kit and thinking about building it.

Regards,
Brad

 

[maloyalo]

When I was a kid and built models, including painting Airfix Napoleonics, Romans and Britons, I never knew from washing figures first. "Mold release compounds? What're those?" And I recently recovered some of my Tamiya armor models from my parents' attic, where they have been alternately baking and freezing since 1982. The decals were flaking off some of them, glue joints had deteriorated, but the paint looks just as it did when they left my bench.

Mold release compounds are just anti-sticking concoctions. They help the piece come out of the mold (rather then sticking to the mold) and are oily.

Model plastics are usually Polystyrene. Glues and paints designed to use with them contain solvents that essential melt a little of the surface and fuse the paint or parts to the surface. Very good bonds.

Some glues however do not contain the solvent (like your stickers) and often actually contain PVC or other chemicals that break down over time. The glue at joints deteriorating is interesting. It problably had both solvent and other chemicals like PVC. Some of it is breaking down.

All plastics break down eventually, even polystyrene. But some last much longer intact then others. Polystyrene is a pretty good balance of good modeling characteristics and stability with frailty, for models. It has not been used much with Toy Soldiers in the past, but I think I have seen it being used in recent years more, perhaps in blends. I have some Forces of Valor figures that might have Polystyrene. But I have first do water and a destructive burn test. Very similiar to testing done in medieval times for witches. Hmm...whom shall it be. The bayonet pose. I never like those. They look stupid in formations.

 

[Wraith]

I have some Forces of Valor figures that might have Polystyrene. But I have first do water and a destructive burn test. Very similiar to testing done in medieval times for witches. Hmm...whom shall it be. The bayonet pose. I never like those. They look stupid in formations.

In which case, why don't you make a mini dio-drama out of the experiment? Kill two birds for the price of one figure

 

[tk7263]

For my soft plastic soldiers I've been using the flat spray primer from Wal-mart the kind thats 99c a can And it does a very nice job on soft plastic it doesnt chip off easily and covers nicely.Now it will craze styrene slightly.Depending on the uniform color I use black or grey.
Eric

 

[HobbyBunker]

For best results...always wash and always prime. Matt

 

[9thHussar]

I can remember reading on a plastic toy soldier box once:"For best results wash figures first with soapy water before painting."

I never have and it hasn't seemed to have made any difference.

Maybe I'm just a little paranoid about the state of my armies having just read the Plastic deterioration thread.

I would appreciate the thoughts of fellow plastics painters.

Cheers.

I have painted plastic figures for over 30 years and washing the figures before painting makes no difference - they will stiill chip and flake if handled roughly - best thing is to undercoat with matt white enamel paint (humbrol or revell) and drying 24 hours before painting the colours on. Then treat them kindly, Regards, Dave