So, What's next with German Paras? (2 Viewers)

[arnhem44mad]

Anybody have any ideas, or some wishes?

I'm thinking maybe some dead and wounded, what about a hand-to-hand set?

Maybe a German para with a knife and a British 'Tommy' with a knife locked in a bitter struggle

Maybe some paras with open chutes, or just landed

 

[Rob]

As you said before Scot,i'd like to see some with parachutes on he ground.But most of all i'd like to see some Cretian villagers hunting down and killing the FJ's.(Yeah i know its gory but it would be so evocative of that conflict)

Rob

 

[arnhem44mad]

As you said before Scot,i'd like to see some with parachutes on he ground.But most of all i'd like to see some Cretian villagers hunting down and killing the FJ's.(Yeah i know its gory but it would be so evocative of that conflict)

Rob

I want to know more about what happened at Crete now

I don't really know what happened there

 

[Capitolron]

A very cool figure would be a German Para landing in his chute being shot - give a tommy a kill for the range !

 

[Harrytheheid]

A very cool figure would be a German Para landing in his chute being shot - give a tommy a kill for the range !

I dunno Ron. I'm a wee bit reluctant to display dead and dying figures, although I do have a few French Naps doing just that - no offense. I know it sounds a bit daft when they're only miniature metal men - especially as we do have a small LAH display that depicts some of the most brutal monsters of the 20th Century, but I do find it a wee bit distastefull when these events are still within living memory. That's just me personally and I'm not having a go at those who do have these types of figures. Hey it's your collection - right?
If it comes to that, how do people reconcile themselves to collecting Waffen SS while wild horses couldn't persuade then to display LAH? I guess we all have different hot buttons, but I'd be interested to know what's the difference?

 

[Capitolron]

Harry

For me there is a difference in WS and LAH figures. I collect WS, AK - not LAH - because I believe (IMHO) that LAH figures glorifies the Political Movement of the Nazi Party and that is something I really dont want to spend money on. On the other hand I have great respect for the German Army and the fighting weapons of WWII. There is something to be had about the trials of War and displaying that period of history.

I know this is probally a very thin line - but, hey - it works for me and saves me money !!

As for dead and wounded figures - I try to dispaly all my figures in a diorama so they can tell a story and IMHO you cant do that with a battle scene without dead and wounded. When you put them and the other figures together - it makes the dio come to life.

Ron

 

[Louis Badolato]

If it comes to that, how do people reconcile themselves to collecting Waffen SS while wild horses couldn't persuade then to display LAH? I guess we all have different hot buttons, but I'd be interested to know what's the difference?

I am one of those people, and for me its very simple. I collect soldiers to honor the brave men who fought (and often died) to protect my freedom, both today and before I was even born. In order to effectively represent their heroism and sacrifice, I need "bad guys" for them to fight against. Thus fighting German (Wermacht and Waffen SS) as well as fighting Japanese are necessary for my diorama displays. That, for me, is the difference. Nazi's in parade dress are both unnecessary for my purposes, and otherwise unwelcome in my home. Accordingly, I have no need to commemorate the existence of the worst human beings in modern history with colorful miniatures depicting them looking "cool" and "Darth Vader-ish".

I have no problem with the people who chose to collect them -- one of my best friends, Hans Hedrich has the largest K&C LAH collection I've ever heard of in my life -- I just don't want them in my home.

 

[Harrytheheid]

Harry

For me there is a difference in WS and LAH figures. I collect WS, AK - not LAH - because I believe (IMHO) that LAH figures glorifies the Political Movement of the Nazi Party and that is something I really dont want to spend money on. On the other hand I have great respect for the German Army and the fighting weapons of WWII. There is something to be had about the trials of War and displaying that period of history.

I know this is probally a very thin line - but, hey - it works for me and saves me money !!

As for dead and wounded figures - I try to dispaly all my figures in a diorama so they can tell a story and IMHO you can do that with a battle scene with dead and wounded. When you put them and the other figures together - it makes the dio come to life.

Ron

I respect your opinion regarding the difference between LAH and Waffen SS Ron. But they were the same people. And the Waffen SS weren't the Wermacht. But it's your perogative and your collection. My question wasn't meant as a critisism, I was just curious.

And I take on board your perfectly valid point regarding dios, that's the reason why I bought those Naps I mentioned. Its just me I guess. I'm not a vet of any conflicts, only served a couple of years in the equivalent of your national guard, but I have been in what amounted to war zones and I have seen dead bodies, so I prefer to keep them out of my collection. My dios are either tongue in cheek, or they only depict one side in a conflict. Mind you, I could make an exception with the Crusader range. Those crusader and saracen figures just cry out to be displayed together.
Oops, and I've just realised that I've contradicted myself, and my Crimean War display features opposing sides and Set 2 will also feature dead Russians.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I tend to avoid depicting dead people from WW2 onwards

Thanks for the response.

 

[Rob]

I want to know more about what happened at Crete now

I don't really know what happened there

Scot,some of the FJ's were scattered around Olive Groves and a village.The very brave inhabitants came out armed with knives,rocks and farming implements hunted down the FJ's and killed more than two hundred of them.The FJ's had not had time to reach their cannisters and were only armed with pistols.I would really like to see some dead and wounded FJ's as it represents the resistance to the Nazi invaders,by the courageous Cretian people.

Rob

 

[Rob]

I am one of those people, and for me its very simple. I collect soldiers to honor the brave men who fought (and often died) to protect my freedom, both today and before I was even born. In order to effectively represent their heroism and sacrifice, I need "bad guys" for them to fight against. Thus fighting German (Wermacht and Waffen SS) as well as fighting Japanese are necessary for my diorama displays. That, for me, is the difference. Nazi's in parade dress are both unnecessary for my purposes, and otherwise unwelcome in my home. Accordingly, I have no need to commemorate the existence of the worst human beings in modern history with colorful miniatures depicting them looking "cool" and "Darth Vader-ish".

I have no problem with the people who chose to collect them -- one of my best friends, Hans Hedrich has the largest K&C LAH collection I've ever heard of in my life -- I just don't want them in my home.

I couldn't have put it better,its excactly how i feel.I only collect Germans because they are the enemy,i have no interest in LAH whatsoever.But each to their own

Just give me some dead and wounded FJ's and some brave cretian villagers.

Rob

 

[Harrytheheid]

Louis and Rob,
What sparked off my question is the fact that I'm gradually weaning the Missus off her apparent fixation with the LAH range and I got wondering about what difference it makes when the majority of people depicted in the LAH range were probably (how would I know for sure?) the same people as depicted in the Waffen SS range.
So thanks to you both for expressing your views on the subject.

PS. I'm under strict orders from Mein Little OberGruppenFuehrer to pick up, the Heydrich set, Gestapo Arrest, SS Kubelwaggen and FoB Kubelwaggen for her when I'm in HK in October. Its a step in the right direction I guess.

 

[arnhem44mad]

Scot,some of the FJ's were scattered around Olive Groves and a village.The very brave inhabitants came out armed with knives,rocks and farming implements hunted down the FJ's and killed more than two hundred of them.The FJ's had not had time to reach their cannisters and were only armed with pistols.I would really like to see some dead and wounded FJ's as it represents the resistance to the Nazi invaders,by the courageous Cretian people.

Rob

Sme

 

[Vezzolf]

I dunno Ron. I'm a wee bit reluctant to display dead and dying figures, although I do have a few French Naps doing just that - no offense. I know it sounds a bit daft when they're only miniature metal men - especially as we do have a small LAH display that depicts some of the most brutal monsters of the 20th Century, but I do find it a wee bit distastefull when these events are still within living memory. That's just me personally and I'm not having a go at those who do have these types of figures. Hey it's your collection - right?
If it comes to that, how do people reconcile themselves to collecting Waffen SS while wild horses couldn't persuade then to display LAH? I guess we all have different hot buttons, but I'd be interested to know what's the difference?

Hey Harry, In previous posts and discussions on this forum, I have heard the arguements for & against LAH figures vs. Waffen SS vs. Wermacht soldiers.....my view on this is that if someone "truely" finds LAH distasteful and offensive; it would seem they would not collect any Nazi War figures at all......my view is that these figures are simply "novelty" items............boys still playing soldier and war and at best history buffs.........Many who have lived thru the suffering ,hardship and persecution of war either as soldiers or civilians would choose not to have visual reminders through toy soldiers....... to give these figurines any greater significance regarding political views and/or moral standards is pure folly.......If some people choose not to collect LAH that's their perrogative......If some collectors choose to collect them fine again......but there are no moral implications...... but I agree the rational regarding the difference is inconsistent.........regards Vezzolf

 

[Capitolron]

Well - I agree everyone has the right to collect what they want. I do not look down on anyone who collects LAH - and I find them interesting to see in others displays. But, for me - its not my bag.

I feel there is a huge Political message that surounds the Political Parades of the Nazi Party - than an action battle scene of the WS or AK ranges. I dont really lump Rommel in the same group of thugs as the early Nazi's - that just my opinion.

 

[Harrytheheid]

If some people choose not to collect LAH that's their perrogative......If some collectors choose to collect them fine again......but there are no moral implications...... but I agree the rational regarding the difference is inconsistent.........regards Vezzolf

Well, thanks for that response Vezzolf, it kind of falls in with what I was thinking. I'm not trying to create yet another controversy (yawn), it was just another of those random thoughts I'm prone to.

Ron, Louis and Rob responded to my question with their viewpoints, and I do understand and respect their stance. Its the same with using dead or dying guys, each to their own. When it comes to other people's collections we have no right to attempt to impose our individual views as to what they should or shouldn't collect IMO. Anyone daft enough to try that one on me would get the bums rush, toot-de-sweet....!!!!
Having said that, I'm toying with the idea of using a dead figure outwith of the 19th century, for the first time.....The dead guy who comes with the grey Stug would possibly add to the visual impact of the FoB diorama I'm planning (as per Ron's original response).

 

[Capitolron]

Harry

I think you will find that it makes a diorama scene come to life. There is a certain realism with having an action scene with wounded and dead figures in the fighting. I dont look at it as glorifing the horrors of war - but giving it an honest account. Well my thoughts anyway.

 

[storch]

I find it interesting to see how time has a way of changing perceptions about history. I do not think that any person in the forum would have any objection about displaying Alexander, Julius Caesar or Hannibal, and yet all three would have been charged as war criminals in modern times (actually Caesar's enemies accussed him precisely of that, even if for political reasons). What about Charlemagne who massacred countless Saxons? Godefrey of Bouillon and his holy crusaders who massacred the whole Muslim and Jewish population of Jerusalem (along with some "heretical" Christians? And let's not forget Genghis Kahn and his lovely kids whose victims can be counted in the millions?
I believe that the suffering caused by war is indeed evil and, without getting too serious or too personal, I have seen a little of it. However, I always find it problematic to divide my soldiers between good guys and bad guys. I like to look at my figures in terms of who were the better fighters, the smartest commanders, who has the best weapons or the best looking uniforms (let's not forget that Hugo Boss made some of the German uniforms). My dioramas are a little fantasy world that tries to capture a sense of adventure that is safe and fun because it is removed from my world by half a century. I like realism and accuracy in my figures, but up to a certain point. I remember that I bought the four German dead figures some years ago and placed them in my Arnhem diorama. They never bothered me except for the guy who had his hand semi-lifted and gave the impression that he was still alive.
As manufacturing techniques improve, the figures may become even more realistic than they are now. And the question is, how far do manufacturers take the depiction of war? I was looking at the Collectors Showcase figures, and although they look great, they also seem a little bit creepy. I guess I had a similar reaction when I saw the Heydrich assassination set. To me that set takes the hobby in a different, perhaps a little more disturbing direction. What can we expect in a couple of years: the revenge shootings of Czech villagers, the hanging of Greek partisans or perhaps the mass rape of German women by the Siberian divisions?

The hobby was easier when all we had were men in funny suits on parade.

Gil

 

[Rob]

The appeal for me in the Heydrich set is that it depicts Loathsome Heydrich getting 'done in'.If it had been a set of Heydrich killing someone then i simply would not have been interested.Its a celebration of the bravery of resistance fighters acroos Europe and the death of this piece of filth.

As for dead and wounded figures i think they are vital for realism.The D-day medic and wounded set is a superb example,i have them propped up against a Tank obstacle and they look great.I understand some people say where do you draw the line?I think it is up to each of us to say where we draw our own individual line.I guess i don't buy LAH as i see it as a celebration of the Nazi plague,where as when my German troops are in action they are getting their arse kicked by my allies.Thats how i look at it anyhow

Rob

 

[Harrytheheid]

Harry

I think you will find that it makes a diorama scene come to life.

Had a quick smile at that one. Dead guys make a dio come to life? The irony is obvious.

Don't get me wrong, like I said, I'm willing to give it a try using the dead French guy that comes with the Stug.
It's just me. For example another manufacturer offers scenes from the Omaha beach landings which simply leave me cold. I haven't swallowed a PC pill or become a tree-hugger overnight, it's just that depicting scenes like that showing human beings under extreme duress, dead and dying doesn't fit MY CONCEPTION of what I want MY collection to be.
To those who want to collect the range I mention, or anything else for that matter, then go ahead. It's your collection, not mine, and I didn't begin this discussion as an excuse to be critical of what other guys collect, cos that's none of my business.
The photos in the thread I started in the Diorama section illustrate the kind of displays I personally prefer, but like I say I'll give it a go in future. The dead and dying guys will have to be integral to the story I'm trying to tell though....even if its just a strory I'm telling to myself.

 

[Harrytheheid]

The appeal for me in the Heydrich set is that it depicts Loathsome Heydrich getting 'done in'.If it had been a set of Heydrich killing someone then i simply would not have been interested.Its a celebration of the bravery of resistance fighters acroos Europe and the death of this piece of filth.
Rob

That's the reason why that set appeals to me as well Rob, and is also why I'll get it for Missus Heid, although her reasons may not be quite so altruistic. I really don't care whether its innacurate or not. I love the car itself and may use it for some other scene in future.