So, what's the big deal? (1 Viewer)

[Mignot]

Hello,

After reading many of the posts on this forum, it seems to me that a large percentage of members are active King and Country collectors. I am wondering what is it about these figures that attracts people? I own a handful of the Revolutionary War British infantry by K&C, and I must say that I find the poses unnatural, the painting nothing special, and the accuracy of the uniforms less than desirable. As well, the scale doesn't blend in well with other figure makers like Frontline (1/32). In my opinion, they do not have any of the charm of traditional toy soldiers, and they do not have the detail of many Russian made figures. Again, this is just one man's uneducated opinion. I would love to hear why people are so passionate about these guys.

Best wishes!

Cole Jones

 

[Pierre]

Hello,

After reading many of the posts on this forum, it seems to me that a large percentage of members are active King and Country collectors. I am wondering what is it about these figures that attracts people? I own a handful of the Revolutionary War British infantry by K&C, and I must say that I find the poses unnatural, the painting nothing special, and the accuracy of the uniforms less than desirable. As well, the scale doesn't blend in well with other figure makers like Frontline (1/32). In my opinion, they do not have any of the charm of traditional toy soldiers, and they do not have the detail of many Russian made figures. Again, this is just one man's uneducated opinion. I would love to hear why people are so passionate about these guys.

Best wishes!

Cole Jones

Hi Cole,

Don't be afraid, you'll hear soon from K&C collectors and they will confirm you that you are an uneducated man (which is certainly not my opinion as I do not know you).

Mes amitiés les plus sincères,
Pierre.

 

[jazzeum]

Cole,

I don't collect Revolutionary War so I'll confine my remarks to World War II. I think the K & C toy soldier is very realistic (although inconsistencies in detail have been pointed out by some) and I think well painted. When you look at a WW II soldier, you could almost be looking at the replica of a real thing (particularly with the level of sculpting and painting we've had in the last four or five years). It's the realism that appeals to the K & C collector.

I believe that there are a lot of newer collectors (like myself) who wouldn't be toy soldier collectors but for King and Country because the old glossy toy soldier doesn't appeal to them.

I agree that in some cases they don't fit in with some other brands but so what?

I also think that some of the detailing and sculpting approaches Russian levels, at a much cheaper price. If you look at the Crusaders set, I think you might agree.

Why does someone one love something? Hard to explain. Sometimes they just do. I happen to love K & C, all of it, from the glossy beginning to the present. I think it's the best, but it's just my opinion and everybody is entitled to theirs.

Notwithstanding all that, I like the traditional glossy soldier also. This hobby is a big one and I'm sure there are people who love and don't love K & C, just as there are those who love and don't love the traditional toy soldier. It's a big tent and I'm sure there's room enough for everybody.

Don't know if I totally answered your question but I hope it's a start. Since you live in New York, maybe we can you get out to Louis' one day and see his monster collection and maybe you can see what drives us K & C collectors.

 

[jazzeum]

Hi Cole,

Don't be afraid, you'll hear soon from K&C collectors and they will confirm you that you are an uneducated man (which is certainly not my opinion as I do not know you).

Mes amitiés les plus sincères,
Pierre.

I don't even know why you would say that. Most K & C collectors respect (and appreciate) collections of others.

 

[Mignot]

Cher Pierre,

J'attends le déluge!!!

Mes sentiments amicaux,

Cole Jones

 

[Kurt]

It's true that Russian figures are higher in quality, but they cost an arm and a leg. The last two St. Petersburg figures I bought cost $500 each. You could buy 5 4-figure sets for that!

In addition, St. Petersburg seem more delicate, not conducive to dioramas and have virtually no WWII figures.

What other manufacturer can match King & Countries WWII quality and quantity? The fact that other manufactuers create diorama accessories specifically for K&C is another benefit.

I don't know about charm, but K&C pieces are definitely cool.

 

[Wraith]

Hi Cole,

I have no axe to grind with any of the manufacturers and hold allegience to none. I collect from all of the main players, K&C, NMA, HB, Figarti, Conte and Britains. I am, what you might call, a Toy Soldier Tart as I share myself around and purchase what tickles my fancy at the time.

I do however like the K&C figures. I can appraciate they may not be to everyones taste. They have (IMO) a very 'clean' and bright paint job, which shows them off nicely. Most are not particularly weathered and I suspect many like this.

They are not toy soldiers in the traditional sense, with bright gloss finishes and rosy cheeks, but it would appear many collectors now prefer the matte, more realistic look that K&C produce. I can see the appeal of the traditional toy soldier, but it's matte for me.

With regards to the scale, well you takes yer choice of 1/30 or 1/32. I'm quite happy collecting both, although display the 2 scales seperately.

As for the poses being unnatural, I can't comment for the Revolutionary War figures, as I have none, but the ones I do have, I would say look pretty natural.

One last opinion on this is that K&C feed the addict's (me included) habit at a rapid rate, and build on each series. They also turn them out at a reasonable price. I would suggest you're not going to find a set of 4 Russian figures for $90. (But if you do, can you let me know, 'cause I might be interested )

Just my thoughts and opinions, I'm sure others will follow.

Simon

 

[Mignot]

Brad,

Thanks for the note. I completely agree that what appeals to one person might not appeal to others. I have not seen the WW2 figures in person, but the website pictures do look more accurate than the rev war ones. I must admit that I may be biased because I bought a bunch of Russian made figures on a business trip to St. Petersburg several years ago for almost nothing (maybe 100 figures for 150 dollars). And the detail on those figures struck me as superior to the K&C figures I own. But I would love to see a large collection of K&C, and I love hearing about why people choose to collect the figures they collect. No disrespect to K&C was meant. I personally am not attracted to old Britains figures, but I respect those who are, and I certainly can appreciate them.


Best wishes,

Cole Jones

 

[Wraith]

...I bought a bunch of Russian made figures on a business trip to St. Petersburg several years ago for almost nothing (maybe 100 figures for 150 dollars....

What?
I was joking about the cheap sets!
OK, just need to find employment with a business that'll send me on a trip to St Petersburg now....
K&C UK? Nah...K&C USSR? Now your talking!

 

[jazzeum]

Cole,

I don't think you meant any disrespect and I certainly didn't take it that way. Obviously, the Russian figures are the gold standard and I think in certain areas King and Country are trying to compete with them. I do hope that you can get to see Louis' collection sometime soon and hear him talk about K & C. Now, there's a true addict

 

[Combat]

KC offers a lot of bang for the buck. Also, when I first started collecting about ten years ago no one was offering much in the WWII line. The few figures that were available were the glossy, dots for eyes type that did not appeal to me. Andy brought things along by improving the quality of the figures, focusing on WWII, and keeping prices reasonable. The thing that most impresses me is how much product KC releases. Almost without exception every other company lags far behind in that respect with endless delays. Sometimes KC may cut a few historical accuracy corners, but for the most part it is a great value. I collect the Russian figures too, but that is an unfair comparison given the price differences and quantity produced. For example, a single WWII personality figure is now listed by Kolobob at nearly $500. Not many in the hobby can afford that.

 

[Mignot]

What?
I was joking about the cheap sets!
OK, just need to find employment with a business that'll send me on a trip to St Petersburg now....
K&C UK? Nah...K&C USSR? Now your talking!

They were cheap....but I have to admit I took my life in my hands when I went after them. I met this Russian man who had a few figures at a street market, and he offered to take me to the factory. So I got in the back of his beat up old car and drove to god knows where Russia, and went into the most dilapidated and depressing factory I have ever seen. After going down three flights of stairs, I found a small room with dim light and probably 20 or so young girls (maybe 12-14) painting away. I got my pick of the soldiers they had just finished. From a collector's point of view, it was a gold mine. But I felt terrible for the painters, who probably made pennies a day.

 

[Currahee Chris]

They were cheap....but I have to admit I took my life in my hands when I went after them. I met this Russian man who had a few figures at a street market, and he offered to take me to the factory. So I got in the back of his beat up old car and drove to god knows where Russia, and went into the most dilapidated and depressing factory I have ever seen. After going down three flights of stairs, I found a small room with dim light and probably 20 or so young girls (maybe 12-14) painting away. I got my pick of the soldiers they had just finished. From a collector's point of view, it was a gold mine. But I felt terrible for the painters, who probably made pennies a day.

Wow.... now that is a collector story. I have often wondered just how hard we are getting pumped for these figures. My firm does a lot of work all over the former eastern bloc and you know things aren't the same there as they are here. That is an interesting story. If I read that correctly you said 100 figures for $150- I think we can all agree that that, if they were St. Pete, Andreas, whomever, would be an EXTRAORDINARY find by any stretch and it isn't something that occurs on a regular basis.

Me, I fell into KC figures myself back in 2000, which is when I got back into the hobby but I have some Britains figs, St. Pete, East of India, 21st Century, Forces of Valor, Conte, Bayonets and Barbed wire, and even those new MacFarlane figures. I sprinkle across the board which reflects my interests in military history- to me toy soldiers enhance my appreciation of Military history. Truthfully, I think Honor Bound makes a better looking WW2 figure but again, it's a payoff with price (KC wins) and diversity in selection (KC wins).

I also think if you look at the products offered by treefrog, you will see that they don't (i don't think) sell some of the lines like St. Pete or East of India so the hardcore collectors of those lines don't promulgate these boards- so the population is skewed to some degree.

You can take a look at the Diorama section and see some of the neat stuff a lot of the collectors have done with their KC material- as well as other companies.
C'est la vie- that's the only french I know.

 

[Mignot]

Chris,

Unfortunately, not all the figures were St Petes, only about a dozen or so. Most were made by Niena, and the figures were painted to two different standards. If I remember correctly, the toy soldier quality paint job cost about 20 cents, the "connoisseur" figures were at least twice that. I can't bring myself to buy any Russian figures over here, after finding the ones over there.

Best wishes,

Cole Jones

 

[Toy Soldier Brigade]

I'm sitting here looking at some of K&C Crusader figures next to a few St. Petersburg figures. I have to say that the paint on some of these rivals the St Pete's for a lot less money. The Saracen figures especially. I'm still amazed that these are only 29.00 a piece.

 

[OzDigger]

They were cheap....but I have to admit I took my life in my hands when I went after them. I met this Russian man who had a few figures at a street market, and he offered to take me to the factory. So I got in the back of his beat up old car and drove to god knows where Russia, and went into the most dilapidated and depressing factory I have ever seen. After going down three flights of stairs, I found a small room with dim light and probably 20 or so young girls (maybe 12-14) painting away. I got my pick of the soldiers they had just finished. From a collector's point of view, it was a gold mine. But I felt terrible for the painters, who probably made pennies a day.

I wonder how much a K & C figure costs to make

 

[Kiwi]

Hey Cole,

I would echo what Wraith said about matte figures. If it wasn't for matte figures and K&C largely responsible for bringing out matte Napoleonics at a more affordable price, I wouldn't have started collecting. This is definately my own opinion (and I can already hear the knives being sharpened ) but the traditional glossy toy soldiers are just that. Toy soldiers. Always have been, always will be. Kids have always traditionally played with them and some collect them, but I have yet to see a glossy that has anywhere near the detail (moulded or painted) that some of the K&C Napoleonics have. The glossies may look bright in colour but I could never set them up in a dio trying to look realistic. I also agree the St Petersburg Napoleonics are without equal. But because they very rarely produce the stock standard poses required for large Napoleonic formations, I could never collect more than a handful of them, even if I could afford the $750+ each!

Just my taste and why I collect K&C.

Cheers

Kiwi

 

[Gideon]

Your post is really very interesting and I think it really states two of the main soldier collecting paths of today:

Charm and Accuracy

It's interesting. Up until the late 1980's, there were these shiny little guys with some nice details, good casting and sculpt quality but finished off in the toy theme.

Since the 1930's, you've had people like Richard Courtenay, Freddie Ping, Ball, Baldet, Vertunni, Lucotte, etc who would bring the detail level of the figure to a higher level - but the price was high.

There have always been the scratch build guys and the competition modelers who would produce the most incredible subjects in miniature. We would go to see these model competitions and our jaws would drop. They would interact, the figures had a psychology - they were lifelike.

The figures coming out today are closer to the competition pieces and they are affordable. Just think of what a Mignot set costs today - -and French made Mignot was never cheap - ever.

So now we have these two paths of collecting - one for charm and nostalgia and the other for interaction and diorama.

I happen to have many different types of things in my collection - very eclectic stuff.

Just my thoughts here.

 

[Dragoon]

It's not fair to say you can't do a good interacting diorama with glossy figures. The Lt. Has been posting some great shots of the Zulu War on another thread for some time now. Almost all using glossy figures.

 

[Gideon]

It's not fair to say you can't do a good interacting diorama with glossy figures. The Lt. Has been posting some great shots of the Zulu War on another thread for some time now. Almost all using glossy figures.

This is true but in general and generally speaking there is huge difference. Imagine a large diorama utilizing Mignot and Heyde figures. It just wouldn't interact the way the newer figures do. Also, many old Mignot figures not glossy at all. They might have a little shine to them but nothing like Tradition or Britains.

And, the glossy figures you are describing - I am assuming Trophy, Britains - post 1990 stuff, are part of the newer breed of figures with Imperial sort of bridging the gap. The sculpting is interactive.