Spanish-American War, Philippine Insurrection & Boxer Rebellion (1 Viewer)

[Manila soldier]

Hi all,

I know there have been many threads in the past talking about why certain niche conflicts are not covered , or polls asking what
conflicts should be covered. Im also realistic in that ultimately I know the manufacturers have to produce what will sell.
But despite that I wanted to present the case for why the Spanish-American War, Philippine Insurrection and Boxer Rebellion could make a
great collection with wide appeal, and to get members views on it.

So here goes.........

1. We have 3 wars here which are contemporaneous and in which US Forces were central: 1898 Spanish war on both the Cuban and Philippines front, the Philippine Insurrection 1899-1902 and the Boxer rebellion of 1900. A US Army and Marines single release could be placed in a wide range of dioramas.....same uniforms , same equipment. In fact many of the marine detachments in 1900 were shuttled between the Philippine front and China. That may broaden the appeal. On that line of thinking......Filipino irregulars could either be fighting as auxiliaries with the Americans in 1898 or as opponents in 18899-1902

2. In the Boxers there is the potential for a truly colorful range........they could almost be the " JJD Jacobites of Asia" ...I think the jacobites are one of the best ranges produced full stop....a great niche.

3. The period is overflowing with personality pieces. If anyone ever wondered what happened to Confederate officers after the end of the civil war....a fair number ended up fighting in these conflicts.....the most famous being Confederate Cavalry General Joe Wheeler in Cuba.Then we have General Lloyd Wheaton who marched with Sherman across Georgia and then in 1900 just carries on marching right across Luzon, using the same General Orders 100 justification for anti- guerrilla ops that he had used in Georgia. Then theres a couple of presidential pieces...Teddy Roosevelt himself and William Howard Taft as first Philippine Governor who went on to be President. When we turn to Peking we have almost a mini Alamo possibility......a range of European delegations under siege with all sorts of eccentrics and stories of daring -do.

4. With the USA as the biggest toy soldier market, there has got to be some market momentum potential here for these American conflicts ........if K&C can produce a range of 1920s US marines and sailors, couldn't we see support for this period? UK is a smaller market and I could understand concerns about whether a Boer War or Indian Mutiny release would take off.

So that's the case for the defence..........a period where releases could be interchangeable across conflicts, lots of personalities, color and I would have hoped some appeal in the biggest market.

I know East of India produced a boxer range a few years back but to be honest these were not comparable in quality with their samurai ranges , were more like 1:35 and, I believe, were not comparable in animation and painting to what is on the market today.
Theres Kings X 3 rough riders and Teddy himself, but its not enough.

I could really see JJD stepping into this niche........already the niche kings with ranges such as War of 1812, Spanish Civil War and Jacobites, I could see this in the portfolio.

Guys ......is there any support out there ?

all the best.

 

[jazzeum]

Interesting ideas but aside from possibly Boxers, I don't see this firing the imagination of collectors or being something companies would want to make an investment in. The Philippine wars against the Philippine peoples were particularly brutish, involving water boarding and other forms of torture and I can't see this generating a lot of interest. I also can't see the Spanish-Cuban-American War (the technically correct name since the Cuban's people struggle for independence was part of the War) being of that much interest, although I have almost all of K & C's Rough Riders early range.

Brad

 

[The Military Workshop]

Hi all,

I know there have been many threads in the past talking about why certain niche conflicts are not covered , or polls asking what
conflicts should be covered. Im also realistic in that ultimately I know the manufacturers have to produce what will sell.
But despite that I wanted to present the case for why the Spanish-American War, Philippine Insurrection and Boxer Rebellion could make a
great collection with wide appeal, and to get members views on it.

So here goes.........

1. We have 3 wars here which are contemporaneous and in which US Forces were central: 1898 Spanish war on both the Cuban and Philippines front, the Philippine Insurrection 1899-1902 and the Boxer rebellion of 1900. A US Army and Marines single release could be placed in a wide range of dioramas.....same uniforms , same equipment. In fact many of the marine detachments in 1900 were shuttled between the Philippine front and China. That may broaden the appeal. On that line of thinking......Filipino irregulars could either be fighting as auxiliaries with the Americans in 1898 or as opponents in 18899-1902

2. In the Boxers there is the potential for a truly colorful range........they could almost be the " JJD Jacobites of Asia" ...I think the jacobites are one of the best ranges produced full stop....a great niche.

3. The period is overflowing with personality pieces. If anyone ever wondered what happened to Confederate officers after the end of the civil war....a fair number ended up fighting in these conflicts.....the most famous being Confederate Cavalry General Joe Wheeler in Cuba.Then we have General Lloyd Wheaton who marched with Sherman across Georgia and then in 1900 just carries on marching right across Luzon, using the same General Orders 100 justification for anti- guerrilla ops that he had used in Georgia. Then theres a couple of presidential pieces...Teddy Roosevelt himself and William Howard Taft as first Philippine Governor who went on to be President. When we turn to Peking we have almost a mini Alamo possibility......a range of European delegations under siege with all sorts of eccentrics and stories of daring -do.

4. With the USA as the biggest toy soldier market, there has got to be some market momentum potential here for these American conflicts ........if K&C can produce a range of 1920s US marines and sailors, couldn't we see support for this period? UK is a smaller market and I could understand concerns about whether a Boer War or Indian Mutiny release would take off.

So that's the case for the defence..........a period where releases could be interchangeable across conflicts, lots of personalities, color and I would have hoped some appeal in the biggest market.

I know East of India produced a boxer range a few years back but to be honest these were not comparable in quality with their samurai ranges , were more like 1:35 and, I believe, were not comparable in animation and painting to what is on the market today.
Theres Kings X 3 rough riders and Teddy himself, but its not enough.

I could really see JJD stepping into this niche........already the niche kings with ranges such as War of 1812, Spanish Civil War and Jacobites, I could see this in the portfolio.

Guys ......is there any support out there ?

all the best.

Hi,
Firstly welcome to the forum.

I am a dealer married to a Phillipina and been there many times so here are my thoughts.

Have read a bit of the history of the Phillipines including the USA involvement around 1900. It is a very little known part of history and I doubt its commercial viability even in the USA market. I doubt there would be much interest from European or Australian collectors and in the Phillipines such figures would be a very expensive luxury item. Cuba is the more interesting due to Teddy Rooseveldt and San Juan Hill etc.

I did search around a couple of years ago and there were some figures available but I cant recall the brand.

Boxer rebellion more commercial than the Phillipines and involves a lot of countries. I did stock the East of India range but interest was low.
Perhaps figures from the relief column seen in 55 Days in Peking.

Just my 2 centavos worth.

Brett

 

[Bren]

Manila soldier
I like where you are coming from in regards to these theatres of conflict I personally would like to see a manufacturer take it back further i.e. Spains discovery and settlement I could see Magellans landing on Mactan island (CEBU) and fighting Lapu Lapu and his warriors (breast plates pantaloons etc... But as stated in previous replies it comes down to commercial viability I once raised the MOARI Wars(New Zealand) conflict with John Jenkins and its chances of being produced but unfortunately it also was not recognised as viable, collector demand/interest and the ability to generate $$$$$$ is what it takes.
My 2peso,s worth ^&grin
Bren

 

[ucla1967]

Trophy Miniatures produced an extensive Boxer Rebellion line about 20 years ago. FYI: there are currently about 10 of Trophy's sets on eBay. Also, Bill Hocker is just coming out with a Boxer Rebellion range which you might want to check out. Bastion Models also produced about a 25 set Boxer Rebellion range which can still be occasionally found on eBay.

 

[PolarBear]

Regal's Soldiers of the World has a glossy Boxer Rebellion series that continues to grow.

http://regaltoysoldiers.com/brands/box-reb

Here is one of the latest sets: Japanese Cavalry

 

[tsukaiban]

Hello Brother,

It came to my senses after you posted this in the forum about the Philippine insurrection. This shows how much passion that you want to have this done but in reality the decision to make this happen comes from the known reputable makers of toy soldiers. Don't get me wrong, I like to idea. As I grow up in the Philippines and read the history books of Francisco Zaide. Philippine history is a long saga of hard ship and intolerable cruelties. I do support you on your proposition and hopefully toy soldier company will look into this.

To add more into the discussion, IMO the part where the Seven Years War that was fought in Manila will be interesting. I would like to see where Brigadier General William Draper invaded Manila on August 1, 1762. Along with the British Fleet and the 79th Regiment of Foot that came from Calcutta, India.

Anyways, just want to add my limang piso to this discussion.:smile2::smile2::smile2:

Hi all,

I know there have been many threads in the past talking about why certain niche conflicts are not covered , or polls asking what
conflicts should be covered. Im also realistic in that ultimately I know the manufacturers have to produce what will sell.
But despite that I wanted to present the case for why the Spanish-American War, Philippine Insurrection and Boxer Rebellion could make a
great collection with wide appeal, and to get members views on it.

So here goes.........

1. We have 3 wars here which are contemporaneous and in which US Forces were central: 1898 Spanish war on both the Cuban and Philippines front, the Philippine Insurrection 1899-1902 and the Boxer rebellion of 1900. A US Army and Marines single release could be placed in a wide range of dioramas.....same uniforms , same equipment. In fact many of the marine detachments in 1900 were shuttled between the Philippine front and China. That may broaden the appeal. On that line of thinking......Filipino irregulars could either be fighting as auxiliaries with the Americans in 1898 or as opponents in 18899-1902

2. In the Boxers there is the potential for a truly colorful range........they could almost be the " JJD Jacobites of Asia" ...I think the jacobites are one of the best ranges produced full stop....a great niche.

3. The period is overflowing with personality pieces. If anyone ever wondered what happened to Confederate officers after the end of the civil war....a fair number ended up fighting in these conflicts.....the most famous being Confederate Cavalry General Joe Wheeler in Cuba.Then we have General Lloyd Wheaton who marched with Sherman across Georgia and then in 1900 just carries on marching right across Luzon, using the same General Orders 100 justification for anti- guerrilla ops that he had used in Georgia. Then theres a couple of presidential pieces...Teddy Roosevelt himself and William Howard Taft as first Philippine Governor who went on to be President. When we turn to Peking we have almost a mini Alamo possibility......a range of European delegations under siege with all sorts of eccentrics and stories of daring -do.

4. With the USA as the biggest toy soldier market, there has got to be some market momentum potential here for these American conflicts ........if K&C can produce a range of 1920s US marines and sailors, couldn't we see support for this period? UK is a smaller market and I could understand concerns about whether a Boer War or Indian Mutiny release would take off.

So that's the case for the defence..........a period where releases could be interchangeable across conflicts, lots of personalities, color and I would have hoped some appeal in the biggest market.

I know East of India produced a boxer range a few years back but to be honest these were not comparable in quality with their samurai ranges , were more like 1:35 and, I believe, were not comparable in animation and painting to what is on the market today.
Theres Kings X 3 rough riders and Teddy himself, but its not enough.

I could really see JJD stepping into this niche........already the niche kings with ranges such as War of 1812, Spanish Civil War and Jacobites, I could see this in the portfolio.

Guys ......is there any support out there ?

all the best.

 

[Escipion]

I am looking forward to seeing a First Legion range about the Spanish American War ^&grin

 

[The Green Knight]

Hello there. I am a Filipino and I have collected toy soldiers since the '70s. I like the idea of having some miniatures depicting our history but I have to agree with some of the comments that the commercial viability might not be there for manufacturers to do it. I have been planning to convert some figs on 54 mm scale to depict these soldiers as I was inspired by the dioramas at the Ayala museum which I used to visit at least once a year before they jacked up the admission price. I might use Conte and TSSD plastic civil war soldiers for Americans and maybe some British Zulu stuff for the Spanish guardia civil but I am still looking for figs to convert into Filipino freedom fighters. it would also be great if I can possibly sculpt some civilians as well. One challenge is to get the Filipino ones on a slightly smaller scale so maybe 1/35th conversions might be ideal. One good diorama would be the Battle of Tirad Pass. Maybe if we want to have figs for our own history, we would have to do it ourselves due to the limited market at the moment.

 

[jazzeum]

It's good to see this thread bringing out some Filipino collectors ^&cool

Brad

 

[marco55]

I had a large interest in this area at one time.Moros would be interesting too.As my main interest now is the FIW, the attack on Manila in 1762 idea grabbed my attention.
Mark

 

[tsukaiban]

I did remember reading one of the comic book regarding the British Invasion of Manila. It was titled "Rape of Manila". I still have this back home. Check this website:

http://malacanang.gov.ph/the-british-conquest-of-manila/

Just to add my 5 cents on that.:smile2:

I had a large interest in this area at one time.Moros would be interesting too.As my main interest now is the FIW, the attack on Manila in 1762 idea grabbed my attention.
Mark

 

[Manila soldier]

Hi guys,

really enjoyed reading how this thread has developed. thanks for the link tsukaiban; Green Knight I agree with you the Ayala Museum diorama displays sparked my imagination as well... there must be 30 or 40 different mini dioramas there when one counts them up. the model ships are pretty good also I thought.

The British attack on Manila 1762 would be natural territory for John Jenkins one would think ......perhaps as part of an East India Company series....Asia as the third theatre of war following on from North America and Europe - Robert Clive , Warren Hastings, Dupleix. From there it could be a short step to Wellington /Tipu Sultan in India 50 years later.....Asian theatre for Napoleonics also. I actually could see this happening as JJ and maybe K&C (Napoleon in Egypt) try and look for a new outlet for established periods. If anyone does anything involving the East India Company - then im definitely in.

Spanish- Amercian/Philippine Wars/Boxers sadly I agree with you......a much longer shot (for matt anyway), needs some initial take off impetus from somewhere.

also liked the Bren's idea of Magellan and earlier Philippine history. sadly the whole conquistador period is another one of those periods
that the toy soldier world has largely flowed past, aside from Morgan Miniatures.

Anyway, its nice to know that there are other Filipino or Philippines based collectors out there. i' ve been living in Manila the last couple of years and plan to be here a fair while longer.......If any of you guys are in town please give me a heads up . Im living in Alabang and would love to invite you round for a beer and a view of my dioramas. Mostly ACW and British colonial, but a bit of WW1 and WW2 in there as well.

On the other hand if any of us win the lottery can we agree to approach a manufacturer to commission a Spanish- US- Philippines range !

all the best.

 

[scmbgetty]

Hi guys,

really enjoyed reading how this thread has developed. thanks for the link tsukaiban; Green Knight I agree with you the Ayala Museum diorama displays sparked my imagination as well... there must be 30 or 40 different mini dioramas there when one counts them up. the model ships are pretty good also I thought.

The British attack on Manila 1762 would be natural territory for John Jenkins one would think ......perhaps as part of an East India Company series....Asia as the third theatre of war following on from North America and Europe - Robert Clive , Warren Hastings, Dupleix. From there it could be a short step to Wellington /Tipu Sultan in India 50 years later.....Asian theatre for Napoleonics also. I actually could see this happening as JJ and maybe K&C (Napoleon in Egypt) try and look for a new outlet for established periods. If anyone does anything involving the East India Company - then im definitely in.

Spanish- Amercian/Philippine Wars/Boxers sadly I agree with you......a much longer shot (for matt anyway), needs some initial take off impetus from somewhere.

also liked the Bren's idea of Magellan and earlier Philippine history. sadly the whole conquistador period is another one of those periods
that the toy soldier world has largely flowed past, aside from Morgan Miniatures.

Anyway, its nice to know that there are other Filipino or Philippines based collectors out there. i' ve been living in Manila the last couple of years and plan to be here a fair while longer.......If any of you guys are in town please give me a heads up . Im living in Alabang and would love to invite you round for a beer and a view of my dioramas. Mostly ACW and British colonial, but a bit of WW1 and WW2 in there as well.

On the other hand if any of us win the lottery can we agree to approach a manufacturer to commission a Spanish- US- Philippines range !

all the best.

There is a new listing of AMERICANS IN MINIATURE SPAN-AM WAR PERIOD U. S. MARINES on the consignment page!

 

[scmbgetty]

There is a new listing of AMERICANS IN MINIATURE SPAN-AM WAR PERIOD U. S. MARINES on the consignment page!

 

[lcdr1635]

One minor detail that would make a US Marine figure not "universal" for all three conflicts. In Cuba the Marines were armed with Lee-Medford rifles. In China and the Philippines, they had Krags. So you would need at least two different USMC figures, which would make me very happy!

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Guys,

I had a discussion a few years ago with the good folks at WB about these wars and it was made clear that they weren't considered viable for large scale production. I still disagree about the Boxer Rebellion but I don't have to commit a ton of cash to do molds, sculpts etc to get the line going. Maybe we'll see it someday.

I would also like to see some US Cavalry figures from the Philippine Insurrection because I have a family connection. My great Uncles dad served there, I have a nice photo of him from a shop in Manila.

So the bottom line is if they made any of these wars I would be in line to collect them.

Dave

 

[johnnybach]

Hi all,

I know there have been many threads in the past talking about why certain niche conflicts are not covered , or polls asking what
conflicts should be covered. Im also realistic in that ultimately I know the manufacturers have to produce what will sell.
But despite that I wanted to present the case for why the Spanish-American War, Philippine Insurrection and Boxer Rebellion could make a
great collection with wide appeal, and to get members views on it.

So here goes.........

1. We have 3 wars here which are contemporaneous and in which US Forces were central: 1898 Spanish war on both the Cuban and Philippines front, the Philippine Insurrection 1899-1902 and the Boxer rebellion of 1900. A US Army and Marines single release could be placed in a wide range of dioramas.....same uniforms , same equipment. In fact many of the marine detachments in 1900 were shuttled between the Philippine front and China. That may broaden the appeal. On that line of thinking......Filipino irregulars could either be fighting as auxiliaries with the Americans in 1898 or as opponents in 18899-1902

2. In the Boxers there is the potential for a truly colorful range........they could almost be the " JJD Jacobites of Asia" ...I think the jacobites are one of the best ranges produced full stop....a great niche.

3. The period is overflowing with personality pieces. If anyone ever wondered what happened to Confederate officers after the end of the civil war....a fair number ended up fighting in these conflicts.....the most famous being Confederate Cavalry General Joe Wheeler in Cuba.Then we have General Lloyd Wheaton who marched with Sherman across Georgia and then in 1900 just carries on marching right across Luzon, using the same General Orders 100 justification for anti- guerrilla ops that he had used in Georgia. Then theres a couple of presidential pieces...Teddy Roosevelt himself and William Howard Taft as first Philippine Governor who went on to be President. When we turn to Peking we have almost a mini Alamo possibility......a range of European delegations under siege with all sorts of eccentrics and stories of daring -do.

4. With the USA as the biggest toy soldier market, there has got to be some market momentum potential here for these American conflicts ........if K&C can produce a range of 1920s US marines and sailors, couldn't we see support for this period? UK is a smaller market and I could understand concerns about whether a Boer War or Indian Mutiny release would take off.

So that's the case for the defence..........a period where releases could be interchangeable across conflicts, lots of personalities, color and I would have hoped some appeal in the biggest market.

I know East of India produced a boxer range a few years back but to be honest these were not comparable in quality with their samurai ranges , were more like 1:35 and, I believe, were not comparable in animation and painting to what is on the market today.
Theres Kings X 3 rough riders and Teddy himself, but its not enough.

I could really see JJD stepping into this niche........already the niche kings with ranges such as War of 1812, Spanish Civil War and Jacobites, I could see this in the portfolio.

Guys ......is there any support out there ?

all the best.

Don't know if this helps - but there are a few figures from "The Moro Wars" - in the Dorset Soldiers range (UK). These can be made available as painted in Matte or Gloss from the manufacturer - or also available as castings. With a bit of TLC and tweaking, they could perhaps form the basis of some pieces that you are after? Take a look at the web-site to find them.

Here's a link - http://www.dorsetsoldiers.com/ then click on Moro Wars. jb