Stalingrad re-release or additions. (1 Viewer)

[Stryker II]

Warrior: I definately agree with your posting. I have been searching for a few of the Iwo series I don't have, and either the dealers are completely sold out--or they don't want to give up thier last ones they have. I had several dealers tell me at Chicago, that they could have sold many more if they had the product to sell in the first place.

Halls of Montezuma was my second favorite marine war movie of all time--what a cast!! Its definately one of Richard Widmark's best movies!!...................Stryker II

 

[Blowtorch]

I'm guessing we'll see a SU-152 if anything. Would go well with the Ferdinand. Berlin is dead...so probably no Stalin's.

 

[lancer]

On the subject of the EastFront, how about the Spanish "Blue" Division. Now that would be unusual. -- lancer

 

[UK_BOD]

I would love to see a set or so on "Pavlov's House". You could have the "house" as the centre piece, a German Sturmgeschutz and troops from the 13 Guards Division and 295 German Infantry Div. All to simulate the assault on the 15 Oct.

Otherwise the assault on the factory district or the last stand of the Germans in Jan/Feb.

Stalingrad would be good on the whole.... and so would a Firefly.

Rob, any changes to what you're getting at the show?

Andy

 

[Rob]

Hey Andy,i'm waiting on dispatches before i make my final decision.I am definitely getting the Bulge tractor as Tony is bringing that down for me.How about you?.

Rob

 

[UK_BOD]

I don't know...........(falls on the floor in a heap, crying loudly).

Crimea, Britains, Cardboard Walkerloo (Son) and a K&C tank or two.

I think....possibly.

Now about to fall in wife's arms crying like a newly-born baby.

Andy

 

[Rob]

And if its tough now,wait until you are stood in front of all those K&C tables,they call you and theres no resisting!

Rob

 

[debrito]

I would love to see a set or so on "Pavlov's House". You could have the "house" as the centre piece, a German Sturmgeschutz and troops from the 13 Guards Division and 295 German Infantry Div. All to simulate the assault on the 15 Oct.

Otherwise the assault on the factory district or the last stand of the Germans in Jan/Feb.

Stalingrad would be good on the whole.... and so would a Firefly.

Rob, any changes to what you're getting at the show?

Andy

Excellent idea mate, the Pavlov's House was one of the landmarks of the Battle along with the Barikad factory.

Cheers

 

[UK_BOD]

Debrito,

Stalingrad opens up so many options....

As a student, when money was short (ie family box of weetabix and a four pint UHT milk to last a week), we use to play the Red Barricades campaign of ASL, which got me hooked on to this battle. I wonder if it is feasible for Andy to produce a modular ruined rolling mill or assembly facade. How about a ruined tram with Russian Guards and German pioneers fighting their way through.

I recently got Valour of the Guards, the newest ASL module which covers the attack into the city in September/October, which has reignited my passion again. Although with kids crawling all over the place theres not much chance of leaving it on the floor/table anymore as its likely to have a milk-bottle stain or remnants of Banana and Rice on the map.

Roll on when there 18 - only kidding

Rgds

Andy

 

[Warrior]

"Otherwise the assault on the factory district or the last stand of the Germans in Jan/Feb."

Andy, I like the way you think mate; On January 31st, 1943, the German sixth Army surrendered to the Russians. In the tractor factory in Stalingrad's northern industrial area, however, General Karl Strecker and the remants of his 11th Corps still held out.

 

[Warrior]

Taking cover amid the rubble and wrecked machinery, General Strecker's troops put up a desperate resistance, exacting many Russian casualties. The German defenders lacked heavy weapons and repelled the Russians with whatever remained. Streckers men had one remaining radio set and on this they listened to Hitler's exhortations to them to hold out to the end.

 

[Warrior]

They held off the Russians for two days and at 8:40 on February 2nd as the Russians closed in, they transmitted their last message to the outside world telling their leader that they had done their duty for the fatherland. The Russians moved up tanks and fired into the factory; at 9:00, all German resistance ceased..............

 

[Blowtorch]

Technically I don't think 6th Army surrendered. Paulus never issued the command.

Several thousand German soldiers were actually holding out in the sewer system until April-ish.

 

[Warrior]

"Technically I don't think 6th Army surrendered. Paulus never issued the command."

Don't really follow your point; are you saying the 6th Army did not surrender? If not, what happened to the 90,000 or so survivors?

Based on all of the accounts I've read on the battle, Von Paulus surrendered on January 31st. Strecker refused to give in and despite fierce resistance, the last German troops surrendered on February 2nd, 1943, the date which marked the official end of the battle.

My diorama is based on Strecker's last stand....................

 

[Blowtorch]

What I mean is that 6th Army didn't officially surrender as an organization. Paulus surrendered himself & his staff when they were overrun, but left the Army organization in limbo. The Russians tried to get him to issue an order for the 6th to surrender, but he weaseled out saying he didn't have the authority to do so. I'll have to double check all that. But one thing that is true is that the last holdouts were roughly 10,000 Germans who held out in the sewer system into March. The Russians recently released that info...I suppose they were embarrassed that it took so long to secure the city.

The last stand is correct...the guys in the sewers werent' really actively resisting...more of a passive defense. Like, come & get me if you can!

 

[Njja]

I have always been interested in what happened to the German troops that

surrendered. I have found very little information, does anyone have a good

source for information as to the fate of the troops that surrendered?

 

[debrito]

Debrito,

Stalingrad opens up so many options....

As a student, when money was short (ie family box of weetabix and a four pint UHT milk to last a week), we use to play the Red Barricades campaign of ASL, which got me hooked on to this battle. I wonder if it is feasible for Andy to produce a modular ruined rolling mill or assembly facade. How about a ruined tram with Russian Guards and German pioneers fighting their way through.

I recently got Valour of the Guards, the newest ASL module which covers the attack into the city in September/October, which has reignited my passion again. Although with kids crawling all over the place theres not much chance of leaving it on the floor/table anymore as its likely to have a milk-bottle stain or remnants of Banana and Rice on the map.

Roll on when there 18 - only kidding

Rgds

Andy

Andy, I am very glad to ready your post. I am too an BIG admirer of the East battles special Stalingrad. I remembered, long time ago, tried to understand (because was in English) the German movie Stalingrad and I got very impressed of the ferocity of those confrontation and the conditions they fought.

I still have hope that K&C will bring a beautiful range about the German 6th Army X Tchouikov 62th Army.

Cheers.

Ps. Nice pictures George...

 

[Nick Nasta]

I believe some were starved and others machine gunned to death.
Nick

 

[fmethorst]

I would love to see a set or so on "Pavlov's House". You could have the "house" as the centre piece, a German Sturmgeschutz and troops from the 13 Guards Division and 295 German Infantry Div. All to simulate the assault on the 15 Oct.

Otherwise the assault on the factory district or the last stand of the Germans in Jan/Feb.

Stalingrad would be good on the whole.... and so would a Firefly.

Rob, any changes to what you're getting at the show?

Andy

While I love the idea of Stalingrad set pieces I think scale is an serious impediment. Pavlov's "house" was actually a 4 storey apartment and the factories were....well factory sized. I suppose a vignette type display might work.

There are a lot of interesting sites:

• Grain Silo
• Red Square
• Mamayev Kurgan
• Red October Factory
• Barrikady Factory
• Brick Factory
• Dzerzhinsky Tractor Factory

I suspect the war was lost for Germany as soon as the United States entered it. Germany simply did not have the resource or industrial capacity to win a protracted war with the United States and the Soviet Union. The German strategy in the east really expected/required a rapid collapse of the Soviet Union. Hitler is reported to have said "We have only to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down." and they came quite close to accomplishing this. When the Soviets held the line the Germans were ridiculously over extended. This led to the use of "Axis Allies" such as Italians, Hungarians and Rumanians who were not trained, equiped or led as well as the Germans to fill the gaps in the line. Perhaps if things hadn't gone so badly for Rommel in North Africa the Germans would have been free to ignore southern Europe and move more units into the east. Regardless one only needs to look at the constant modification of the Panzer division between 1942 and 1945 and their consistantly understrength condition to appreciate the dire situation the Reich was in. It certainly couldn't afford the losses suffered at Stalingrad which included many of the best German units at the time.

As spectacular a victory as "Operation Uranus" was for the Soviets in the southern sector it has to contrasted with their equally spectacular failure in the central sector, "Operation Mars" (Rzhev) . It is quite interesting to compare the Soviet forces of the two operations:

Operation Mars: Initial forces 668,000 men and 2000 tanks, plus 415,000 men and 1265 tanks earmarked for the follow-up offensive Operation Jupiter ( about 150,000 men and several hundred tanks were used to reinforce the unsuccessful Op Mars).

Operation Uranus ( initial Stalingrad offensive): 700,000 men and 1400 tanks, plus 400,000 men and 1200 tanks for the second part named Operation Saturn.

After winning the Rzhev battle the Germans withdrew from the salient in March 1943.

One and a half years later (at the time of the Normandy battles) the Soviets destroyed German Army Group Centre during "Operation Bagration" demonstrating the German inability to sustain protracted war against American and Soviet industrial might.

 

[Warrior]

"What I mean is that 6th Army didn't officially surrender as an organization. Paulus surrendered himself & his staff when they were overrun, but left the Army organization in limbo. The Russians tried to get him to issue an order for the 6th to surrender, but he weaseled out saying he didn't have the authority to do so. I'll have to double check all that. But one thing that is true is that the last holdouts were roughly 10,000 Germans who held out in the sewer system into March. The Russians recently released that info...I suppose they were embarrassed that it took so long to secure the city.

The last stand is correct...the guys in the sewers werent' really actively resisting...more of a passive defense. Like, come & get me if you can!"

Understood, thanks for the information, was not aware of the troops hold up in the sewers.............