Tanks-Chruchill or Cromwell (1 Viewer)

[TomB]

Churchill and Cromwell tanks.....Which was the better tank of the two ? I know the German tanks and the T34 were the best in the war but the two C's being early Brits tanks look interesting...... they look as if they would be a better tank than the Stuart and Grant..... and does anyone have any info on the small work horse that was called a bren gun carrier by the aussie desert troops ....cheers TomB

 

[Mitch]

Probably the Cromwell on looks as the Churchill was rather displeasing to the eye.The Churchill had better climbing ability, armoured protection which, the crews liked for obvious reasons. The Cromwell was faster so, could get out of trouble as quick as it got into it and both had similar armament. Both good tanks in their own right but, with pro's and con's for both
Mitch

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Churchill and Cromwell tanks.....Which was the better tank of the two ? I know the German tanks and the T34 were the best in the war but the two C's being early Brits tanks look interesting...... they look as if they would be a better tank than the Stuart and Grant..... and does anyone have any info on the small work horse that was called a bren gun carrier by the aussie desert troops ....cheers TomB

Osprey has a booklet on the Universal carrier. They were very widely used. Some 60,000 were produced with more than half produced in Canada and about 5000 produced in Australia in either Adelaide or Brisbane - can't remember which.

Terry

 

[TomB]

Probably the Cromwell on looks as the Churchill was rather displeasing to the eye.The Churchill had better climbing ability, armoured protection which, the crews liked for obvious reasons. The Cromwell was faster so, could get out of trouble as quick as it got into it and both had similar armament. Both good tanks in their own right but, with pro's and con's for both
Mitch

Thanks...TomB

 

[TomB]

Osprey has a booklet on the Universal carrier. They were very widely used. Some 60,000 were produced with more than half produced in Canada and about 5000 produced in Australia in either Adelaide or Brisbane - can't remember which.

Terry

Thanks....actually saw one a few yrs ago....bit of a wreck but due to be restored I think.....my dad was in the middle east as well as New Guinea.....he liked the bren gun carrier....TomB

 

[larso]

"and about 5000 produced in Australia in either Adelaide or Brisbane - can't remember which."

After the war quite a few were picked up by farmers and I've seen several restored examples around the place. One was still parked amongst the M113s of the 2/14th LH when I was a member there in the 1990s.

 

[johnnybach]

Osprey has a booklet on the Universal carrier. They were very widely used. Some 60,000 were produced with more than half produced in Canada and about 5000 produced in Australia in either Adelaide or Brisbane - can't remember which. Terry

All three AFV's you mention are illustrated - with text - in the book I mentioned to you before Tom. "Tank : A History of the Armoured Fighting Vehicle" by Kenneth Macksey & John H Batchelor. Used copies are still available from Amazon (UK) at reasonable cost. I believe that shipping a book to OZ is under $5 from Amazon ( but not sure about that - as I have never done it). jb

 

[larso]

"shipping a book to OZ is under $5 from Amazon"

Nope, $12.50. It can be more sometimes too. Even so, it's far cheaper than ebay.

 

[TomB]

All three AFV's you mention are illustrated - with text - in the book I mentioned to you before Tom. "Tank : A History of the Armoured Fighting Vehicle" by Kenneth Macksey & John H Batchelor. Used copies are still available from Amazon (UK) at reasonable cost. I believe that shipping a book to OZ is under $5 from Amazon ( but not sure about that - as I have never done it). jb

Thanks for that I will look around...TomB

 

[TomB]

"and about 5000 produced in Australia in either Adelaide or Brisbane - can't remember which."

After the war quite a few were picked up by farmers and I've seen several restored examples around the place. One was still parked amongst the M113s of the 2/14th LH when I was a member there in the 1990s.

There used to be a Lion Pk and various assorted museums and kids play things here in perth called the Dizzy Lamb.....yrs ago....One old bloke had a Army Museum.....He had a Grant and a Steward and an Old WW2 Ambulance...and...a 25 pounder arty piece amongst others things...he said he picked up most of the Tanks etc from farms and rebuilt ... tank guns he picked up from scrap yards in Syd....dont think that applied to the 25 pdr....he had a heap of tripods around the place he used as posts to rope off different section....he asked me if I knew what they were.........they were old Vickers machine gun mountings.....hey..hey...can you imagine just after the war...going for a drive in the country and seeing the cockies racing around the paddock in their tanks towing a harvester (no tractors after the war but plenty of used tanks available)...see ya...TomB

 

[johnnybach]

"shipping a book to OZ is under $5 from Amazon"

Nope, $12.50. It can be more sometimes too. Even so, it's far cheaper than ebay.

Okay thanks for that Larso - when I had a look from the UK end - that's what I found. DID sound too cheap! jb^&grin Sorry Tom - Duff info - cracking book though - and ideal for someone who likes to build 'em from scratch.

 

[TomB]

Okay thanks for that Larso - when I had a look from the UK end - that's what I found. DID sound too cheap! jb^&grin Sorry Tom - Duff info - cracking book though - and ideal for someone who likes to build 'em from scratch.

No worries....thanks for the info,,,,,,I am sorta looking around at tanks and vehicles at the moment....cheers TomB

 

[uksubs]

For me the best book on British armour in WW2 is Death by Design: British Tank Development in the Second World War

 

[binder001]

It's hard to say "better" between Churchill and Cromwell as the two tanks were designed for quite different missions. The Churchill was designed as an "Infantry" tank, a vehicle to facilitate the advance of the rifleman. For this mission the tank needed heavier armor and didn't need to move particularly fast. The Cromwell was designed as a "Cruiser" - a tank that is ued to exploit a breakthrough and/or chase down the enemy. For this mission the tank needed mobility at the expense of heavy armor. Both were decent tanks but somewhat dated in design philosophy. Both had limited growth potential, for instance neither could accept the 17-pounder gun without a major rebuild of the design. The basic secret to the success of the Sherman or Pzkpfw IV or T34 was that thay could take upgunning and uparmoring and other revised features. Cromwell's layout led along the evolutionary path to Centurion which became one of the most successful modern tanks. Churchill was a dead-end design. So both Churchill and Cromwell were OK for their respective missions.

 

[TomB]

It's hard to say "better" between Churchill and Cromwell as the two tanks were designed for quite different missions. The Churchill was designed as an "Infantry" tank, a vehicle to facilitate the advance of the rifleman. For this mission the tank needed heavier armor and didn't need to move particularly fast. The Cromwell was designed as a "Cruiser" - a tank that is ued to exploit a breakthrough and/or chase down the enemy. For this mission the tank needed mobility at the expense of heavy armor. Both were decent tanks but somewhat dated in design philosophy. Both had limited growth potential, for instance neither could accept the 17-pounder gun without a major rebuild of the design. The basic secret to the success of the Sherman or Pzkpfw IV or T34 was that thay could take upgunning and uparmoring and other revised features. Cromwell's layout led along the evolutionary path to Centurion which became one of the most successful modern tanks. Churchill was a dead-end design. So both Churchill and Cromwell were OK for their respective missions.

Thank you for the info...very interesting about the Cromwell/Centurian tanks.....have seen the Centurians rumbling around ocassionaly.......cheers TomB