The Continuing Story of a Dying Hobby (1 Viewer)

jazzeum said:
That all depends on the age of the customer base. Have you done an age breakdown of the customer base; I'm not even sure you would have that information because of privacy concerns. You indicate that the customer base is not static and shrinking. Therefore, it must be growing. What's the factual basis for that statment?

If you can find those few extra hundred customers, you would be in great shape. However, that's an "if." Whether it's a big if, time will tell.

Brad
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Again, the assumption seems to be that there is no hope of finding new collectors. I've heard that story for 15 years now.

I'm not being Pollyanna here. I can only speak for what happens in my shop...but we do see new customers coming into the hobby. They may not show up on a Forum, but they exist. We're going to keep working to find ways to connect with them and bring them in.

Sometime new people jump in with both feet. Sometimes they get a few figures...then a few more...then off they go. It takes all kinds, but the end result is the same: new blood!
 
Phantom Warrior said:
I have good reason to think that the most important factor causing a rapid decline in UK sales is the unfortunately high UK prices. The industry in the UK may have finally hit the wall on the prices collectors are willing to pay. Once affordability and value become an issue, collectors can cut back on purchases, but if the cutback gets too severe, collectors may stop purchasing entirely.

Terry
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Spot on Terry :salute::
 
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Once the figures started getting in $30's I started to cut back to where I get very few anymore.Stick to the smaller guys now but there are exceptions.
Mark
 
Just looking back on my collection, when I started the Britains Zulu range figures were $24.00. Looks like they maybe about $36.00 for 2016. That is just $1.50 per figure per year. Not to bad IMO. I haven't bought much TS wise for the last few months though just because my funds have been used for my other hobby model railways :)
 
Peter Reuss said:
Again, the assumption seems to be that there is no hope of finding new collectors. I've heard that story for 15 years now.

I'm not being Pollyanna here. I can only speak for what happens in my shop...but we do see new customers coming into the hobby. They may not show up on a Forum, but they exist. We're going to keep working to find ways to connect with them and bring them in.

Sometime new people jump in with both feet. Sometimes they get a few figures...then a few more...then off they go. It takes all kinds, but the end result is the same: new blood!
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I hear this all the time in the 1/6th world. 1/6 forums probably outnumber toy soldier forums at least 10 to 1. For some reason, collectors are under the impression that forum members are the only people in the hobby. I can't tell you how many times I would be talking to a customer and ask them which forum they are a member of. 8 out of 10 would reply "Whats a forum?". The point is that members on this board only represent a small number of actual collectors in the world. So it's a little hard to judge how many people are entering the hobby by the participation on these boards.
 
In just over two weeks, Brisbane Toy Collectors will again host it's annual dinner with guest Andy from K&C. Each year the attendance has grown. Each year, participation in the large dioramas has expanded. The venue is a college full of young people who access and view the results round the year.
My young son is submitting a dio in our new A4 dio competition. My spectacle supplier and spouse are attending as first-timers and paying for their own tickets. There are numerous entries in the competition. Why A4 you ask? Because it creates as near as possible a level playing field. Creativity is more important than number of figures and the will to participate is clearly evident. People are swinging back to participation away from passive collecting.
The boundaries between what were previously niches in the figurines market are merging. We see ,40mm war games figures, a field once dominated by a scale half that size. And I was informed, speaking to a Bolt Action representative at the much expanded History Alive at Fort Lytton over a week ago, that young European women are flocking to the hobby, not so much to play, but for the competitive painting activities. It seems they find this indoor activity suits the long winters.
Is "the hobby" changing? Of course it is; it has never stopped changing. There were toy soldiers found in the tombs of the Pharaohs. The really good thing is that you can participate today without needing that high office. But if you seek to retain an exclusive collector base for 60mm figures that is stand-alone viable, I think the Betamax vs VHS story is worth a review.
 
The continuing price increases are just turning this hobby (i.e. 54 to 60mm standard scales) into an even smaller niche than it was. I think the smaller 28mm scale is likely becoming the future of this hobby. Several members of this forum have already left the standard scale to pursue this smaller scale in the past few years. If you look at some of the war gamming events on youtube, the number of enthusiasts are astounding compared to what I saw in pictures of the last 2 London Toy Soldier shows and what seems to be happening to some of the US Toy Soldier shows as well. The constant rise in prices are definitely a factor amongst other things previously mentioned.

I won't give up what I already have in the standard scale but I am looking to start collecting the Perry Miniatures Hundred Years War series in 28mm. When these are professionally painted, they look great! Also, I am more of a tabletop diorama collector, re-creating a historical event with 200 to 300 figures in my diorama. That would be hard to do with today's prices in the standard scale! In 28mm, I could even add to the size of the diorama! I am just glad I started getting my standard collection going before the big jump in prices in the last several years. If I was a toy soldier retailer should be looking into diversifying into this scale along with the standard scale for the those that can still afford them.

Collectors who are still interested in the standard scales may want to look at some of the cottage industry players such as ATS. The prices for a foot figure can still be had for about US $25 and the mounted ones for about US $45. These are good value and I decided to make my collection in the ECW range exclusively from ATS.

The last K&C figure purchases that I made was the George and Tom Custer figures from the Little Big Horn series for $42 each. Most of my K&C collection was purchased at an average cost of below $30 a foot figure. Times have sure changed!
 
The sculpting on the 28mm are getting better and better.Take a look at these dioramas.They are from Perry and Oniria Miniatures.
Mark


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Here is a youtube clip that says a lot of the future of the miniature hobby:


This is the "Salute" war gaming show in London in 2016. The shear number of patrons says a lot of where collector interest and $$ are going. A lot of the scales used are 28mm. Both historical and fantasy subjects. I am not a fan of fantasy figures nor am I a war gamer but you can make a very nice medium to large diorama in 28mm at half the cost of one in the standard scales today! If I were to start in this hobby today I would seriously be looking at the 28mm scale of figures. Lots of makers out there accurately producing historical figures of all historical eras of interest. Check out Perry Miniatures and get them professionally painted if your lacking in those skills or time. It's worth taking the time to investigate options.
 
For a dying hobby there seem to still be a lot of options. Just in the last few days I have read about or talked about 28 mm figures, smaller dioramas, alternate manufacturers and the use of plastic kits as support prices in dioramas. That does not sound like death. It sounds like evolution.
 
As a member of the under 30 demographic, I can honestly say that this hobby will not die out. With that being said, I have noticed that most other collectors in my age range have a preference for tabletop gaming and fantasy figures. In many ways this means that this hobby will be returning to its roots, and that toy soldiers (or military miniatures) will be used as toys instead of collectors pieces. At a recent local show, I noticed that there were more customers interested in 28mm space marines than in napoleonics, the Crimean War, or any of the other "traditional" areas of interest.

This hobby is certainly changing, and will continue to change. As with any other business, the current manufacturers must either adapt to change or become irrelevant. It might be that in the no too distant future we could see Britain's drop their WWII range (which I think has been overproduced) in favor of a fantasy series.
 
Peter Reuss said:
My goal isn't to fight for a smaller pie. I want a new pie! We're not talking tens of thousands of people needed to impact this hobby. Even a few hundred passionate collectors will make a difference. With Richard Walker's help I'm going to do everything in my power to track down more people.

I've been priced out of the hobby for quite awhile. If prices were lower than now, I'm sure I would be spending more money per year than I currently do. The variety of soldiers are fantastic. Now I wonder, should I spend $200 on a AFV? In the past, there was no hesitation in buying $89 or a $125 AFV. There are many like me and the rise in prices may have cut out a large demographic of the buying public.
I've always believed the key to success is good customer service and sincerity. When Shannon answered the phones, you could just feel the sincerity, which sold me to be a loyal customer. The Treefrog Forum is also a wonderful marketing tool. When I joined the Forum, there was hardly any Australian/New Zealand members. Now they are a Forum force. I think, the toy soldier market has lost their "bread & butter" sales and now will have to search for, as they say in Las Vegas, a few "whales" (high end spenders).
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cnq said:
Sherman tank and crew in Kelly's Heroes looks very very nice. Imo it looks much better than the 1/30 scale model out there in terms of detail and weathering.
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It's a diorama using resin kit figures, assembled and painted with a high level of skill, rather than factory-painting in the PRC. If I remember correctly, the figures are in a scale smaller than 1/32. Someone posted this picture over on TimeLines last week or the week before, and I believe the figures are from a maker in Eastern Europe, though I may be mis-remembering.

Prost!
Brad
 
There have been stories about the greying of the Wargames hobby ever since I started in it in 1974 at the age of 12! It is still attracting new people and I am finding that this year my turnover through my wargaming company Black Hat Miniatures is as healthy as it's ever been.

For Toy Soldier collectors you aren't going to see many young people as they have nowhere to keep collections and cannot afford them. People return to hobbies in their 30s as they have young children.

We see this a lot in the wargames club in Guildford I go to- our typical new member is someone who used toplay games in their teens, stopped after finding girls and is now returning to hobbies as they have young kids and time to spend at home painting, etc.

I am with Peter on this - look at the boom at the moment in boardgames - 10,000 people went to a show in Birmingham, UK at the start of June and they are expanding to 20,000 next year. Noone would have seen that a few years ago.

Getting people into the hobby through Fantasy and SF will lead some of those people on to historical subjects - it is a question of finding the right gateway.

Mike
 
There is a marked tendency to forget that the greying of society means we collectors stay alive longer and earn longer...and generally keep collecting stuff...and not just belly-button fluff (yeah, you got it; that's the limit of my poetical talent).
But that's good news, right?
I got button-holed a few weeks back by a project suggesting I could leave them my collection...I had to immediately find a mirror �� I haven't had time yet to write a bucket list and the sky-diving thing is still ahead of me (way ahead ��) So I'm just going to reflect positively on hobbies that grey in sync with the rest of society...and vote for the guys promoting Medicare ��
 
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Hey Mike, it's true about the greying since 1974...when I found that mirror, I noticed I've got a few grey hairs since then. But then I've outlasted Napoleon so it's a cross I'll bear {sm2}
 
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