Thirty Years War Sneak Peek - Part 2 (1 Viewer)

[jazzeum]

From the Newsletter:

"For this month’s 'sneak peek' we preview a few more of the upcoming Thirty Years War Spanish Tercio from the Battle of Rocroi. Done to our highest quality, these figures are sure to please, particularly when displayed as a full group."

 

[Escipion]

When? I want all of them.

{eek3}{eek3}{eek3}

 

[jazzeum]

Sometime next year I suppose. Maybe Matt can give us a "hint."

 

[cantinetozzo]

They look outstanding. My only doubt is the size of morion...too small...

 

[Dragoon]

Those Colors will be an outstanding addition for the flag bearer collectors out there.

 

[zblang]

LOve them!

 

[Gebhard]

They look outstanding. My only doubt is the size of morion...too small...

Just curious, but which one ? Thanks

 

[Obee]

I must have missed this thread, over the Festive Season, but on looking at the FL website today I saw the 30YW figures and a mention about the Battle of Rocroi in 1643.

A few years back when we were touring in Northern France we stopped at the town of Rocroi for lunch and to see the wonderful star fortress town and visit it's local museum.

In the museum there are many display cabinets with toy soldiers, zinnfiguren flats and uniforms of the time that show the battle, so its must for history buffs as well as toy soldier collectors.
here are some of my pictures.






John

 

[cantinetozzo]

Just curious, but which one ? Thanks

Sorry to answer now..:/ i'm referring to all the helmets ..theyseem really small to me. Or the heads too big. I was in Rome just a month ago..and in a militaria shop there was a Brescia (a city in which were produced most of the arms and armours of the period) morion on sale. It's huge..i believe there was some kind of padding just for avoiding of getting "blind" given the dimensions of the helm compared to the head. Its proportions are well rendered by Kronprinz with their series. Or King & Country... These seem really too small, and it's a pity because the figure are as always wonderful.

 

[jazzeum]

If you look at images available on the internet of the helmet, they don't seem too small to me. Perhaps you will need to measure the morin on one of the figures and compare it to an actual one to satisfy yourself. Moreover, I'm sure there were fluctuations in sizes in the actual ones as these were not made on an assembly line.

 

[Warrior]

If you look at images available on the internet of the helmet, they don't seem too small to me. Perhaps you will need to measure the morin on one of the figures and compare it to an actual one to satisfy yourself. Moreover, I'm sure there were fluctuations in sizes in the actual ones as these were not made on an assembly line.

You know what would be really great; whenever someone says the helmet is too small, ACW Union cavalry did not have a yellow stripe on their pants, WWII US infantry did not carry gas masks beyond the beach landings, the log on the Tiger tank is on the wrong side, etc, etc, that they also back up those comments with photographs showing other collectors what the perceived issue is vs an actual item, or photos showing examples of what they are referring to.

IE, let's see proof positive rather than just vague statements, it would really be helpful to see an actual example of the issue in question.

 

[cantinetozzo]

I don't agree. The morion was a design in service for about 200 years so i presume there were many variations in design, decorations...etc. but you must agree that the inspiration for the figures is the famous painting by Ferrer Dalmau "Rocroi" and they seem small to me. Obviously it's my opinion. The morion it's really huge as i already wrote, some padding necessary to prevent it falling on the face of the wearer. I include a few pictures..Also when i refer to "small vs huge" i'm referring to the two main features of the morion..the protruding front and back visors and the crest. They are small , even if obviously i'm sure there were small morions (and big heads).

 

[cantinetozzo]

By the way i'm referring here only tho the crested helmet (the only named "morion") of the figures, that is TYW017, 019, 021. Those wearing the cabacete or the burgonet seem really good to me. I added a few pictures of other morions ...for me the best proportions are those of KP figure or K&C swiss guard.

 

[cantinetozzo]

Here the painting to Rocroi:

 

[jazzeum]

As you said it's your opinion and I don't agree with your opinion. Now, if you measured the exact style of helmet as the FL one and then the FL one and found the real one larger than than the FL one, that would be dispositive. Until then, it's all just guess work and speculation. Bring us facts, nothing but facts.

 

[cantinetozzo]

Ok. I brought you many pictures. For me the helmet is small. Look at the face of the pikeman and the brim of the morion in the FL figure. Now look at the other pictures i posted. Don't you see a difference? It's not a matter of perspective. They are smaller than the other figures. Do you like them? No problem, but you can't say they are not smaller.

 

[jazzeum]

Photos are one thing, facts another. How something may appear to one person doesn't mean it will necessarily appear that one way to another. When a manufacturer makes a figure, the presumption is that everything about is historically correct. In order to rebut that presumption, you (not you but the generic "you") need to factually demonstrate that it is not so correct. That is what people do when they think the scale of a figure is not correct. Until you do that, it's just opinion and supposition.

Perhaps we should just move on at this point.

 

[bradleyl30]

Also, recreations are notoriously poor. Knyght Errant does a whole series on this for medieval armor, and usually FL is on the right side of his analysis.

I believe this is an actual museum piece that is not as wide as the examples you have shown, but closer in my opinion to the FL model:

http://www.britishmuseum.org/resear...px?assetId=1349928001&objectId=39641&partId=1

 

[bradleyl30]

A less ornate version that is a pretty different style:

http://www.britishmuseum.org/resear...spx?partid=1&assetid=392559001&objectid=39971

I don't have time to continue, but my quick google searches make me believe it is plausible that the painting created a wider and larger morion than what historical examples actually indicate. Then reproductions were created to match that, and other toy soldier companies copied it. I would not say this conclusively, but in my 5 minute search most of the verified historical examples are not so large, but a fair number of reproductions are.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

 

[cantinetozzo]

Please mind that the first is a Morion, the perspective shows a brim less wider than if seen from profile..the second seems to me a cabacete with crest. Obviously as said there were lot of designs...for me the helmets are smaller than usual. You must see in person a morion...the brim is very wide, very different from the FL figures. But i want to finish this argument saying that well everyone has his tastes...