Ticonderoga: Order of Battle (2 Viewers)

Frank,

thanks for the kind comments. Yes I always try to get the uniform deatils just right, so thanks for your observation.

I passed an image back to John to cast his eagle eye over my first attempt... he came back with 4 small changes, so they were effected befor eyou all saw the first soldier. I haven't sent him the second one.... but I will just in case I've slipped up:)

John
 
John....
Thanks for showing your second Grenadier painted, You have done
a great job on both figures, Thanks again. Cant wait till they come out.
 
Found this information, it is more detailed than in Osprey:

The British Indians viewed the Battle from Rattlesnake Mountain (Mount Defiance):

395 Indians (British allies)

173 Mohawk
68 Onieda
30 Onondaga
22 Tuscarora
12 Seneca

18 Scohary (No idea who these guys are, but in the reference, not Iroquois)
47 Mohicans (Unsure if really Mahican or Mogehan, but leaning toward Mahican which includes Stockbridge)

The French only had 15 or 18 Indians present. Over six-hundred French Indians were in route to Carillion along with an additional 3,000 french under Riguad, but they arrived at Carillion on July 12th, several days after the battle. These are not the Levis troops which joined Montcalm a day or 2 before the battle, but a different force.

These indian reinforcements along with Canadian Troops repeatedly raided as far south as Fort Edward during the remainder of the summer and were very effective ---- including an attack on large 54-wagon supply train and several large scale ambushes including engagements with Roger Rangers.
 
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Decent Map showing French Regimental Positions. The British positions vary so much with time, you really need a time stamp on any map for the British positions ---- British at 12:30, 3:30, 5:00. Osprey mapping for the British positions is very different from this map because each map is depicting a different time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CarillonBattle.svg

Second Map, older, but zoomable. Mike, I think this map shows the roads/paths you were talking about and how the roads enter and pass through the breastworks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TiconderogaJeffreys1758.jpg
 
that is a good post Ken...no guesswork left in placing your figures correctly...thank you...
 
Ambercromby's Artillery from William's Nester's Ticonderoga. The total of 44 in this list, matches the total of 44 pieces listed in Osprey's volume, Ticonderoga.

2 Brass 24 Pounders
4 Iron 18 Pounders
6 Brass 12 Pounders
6 Brass 6 Pounders

1 Iron 13 Inch Mortar
2 Brass 10 Inch Mortars
2 Brass 8 Inch Mortars
8 5.5 Inch Mortars

4 Brass 8 Inch Howitzers
5 Iron 8 Inch Howitzers
4 5.5 Howitzers

That is 13 Howitzers and 13 Mortars that could have been used to simply lob shells over the abatis into the breastwork. Ambercromby could have had more "coehorn" type mortars, 4 2/3 Inch, as 20 of these mortars were shipped to Abercromby from England as part of the supplies for the 1758 Campaign, but I cannot seem to find any further mention of this size mortar.

I also cannot seem to find any reference to any of the cannon sinking on the trip up Lake George. This only a rumor? Any hints?
 
Ken...

I have read several refernces about the guns falling off make shift barges and sinking to the bottom of the lake...

the description was of two lake boats...side by side...with planks balanced in the middle overlapping into both boats...probably lashed by some means...

if memory serves me correctly...over 1/2 of them or close to half of them...lets just say...about 1/2 of them...
 
fraximus.........
Thanks for info. on artillery, position of troops, and description
of Abattis and 2 entrance ways inside, that is the way I will build
my abattis.
 
The French sunk some British barges carrying artillery up the La Chute river when they took the wrong channel and came close to the fort. The artillery was intended for Rattlesnake Mountain where they could have blown the French to bits. A total muck up from beginning to end on the Brit side. Abercromby had artillery with him. My guess is he did not want to delay the attack by taking the time to bring it up. He was under the impression that the French were about to be reinforced, the defenses were light, and time was of the essence.
 
After reading Mike's and Combat's response to my question, I got out the DVD player, played the suspect DVD and then unsuccessfully tried to get it all out of my mind, but failed. So after 45 minutes of tossing and turning, here goes:

In the wonderful PBS documentary, The War that Made America, I think there is a mistake in the script. This is the 4-hour documentary of the French and Indian War that includes the Montcalm clip standing on the breastwork that you can play on You Tube. The script clearly states the Abercromby lost half his artillery in the lake, and he was unaware of the loss. This suggests he lost 22 or more pieces of artillery on the trip up Lake George. I think this is an editorial error made in the production of the documentary. I can find nothing outside of this DVD that suggests he lost any artillery on the voyage up Lake George.

And how can Ambercromby not be aware he lost over 22 pieces of artillery on the way up Lake George? The guy is a great administrator. This idea is not ringing true to me (even though it aired on PBS) :smile2::smile2::smile2:.

For the Battle, Abercromby intended to establish 1 battery of 4 6-pounders and 2 Howitzers at the base of Mount Rattlesnake. He put those pieces on 2 barges and added troops in 20 or so bateaux as an escort. After the needed portages around waterfalls and a series of rapids, these boats moved down the La Chute River. The La Chute River contains a series of islands and more than 1 channel in some locations. Unfortunately, the British boats took the wrong channel down the La Chute River and exposed themselves to cannon fire from Fort Carillon and fire from french troops along the shoreline. Some of the french cannon fire did manage to hit at least 1 of the British barges hauling 3 of the guns and at least 1 bateaux, spilling troops into the water. My guess is more than just troops were spilled into the water, but some guns as well. The British boats turned around and went back up the La Chute River.

I am thinking that this is the 1/2 of the British artillery that was sunk, but not in Lake George, but in the La Chute River and not 22 guns, but something closer to 3 guns --- half of the 6 pieces intended for the base of Mount Rattlesnake. Abercromby may not have known about this failure until well after the Battle.

Following the retreat back up the La Chute River, the British would then have been forced to abandon the remaining guns they had intended to place at Mount Rattlesnake or somehow then haul them back to Lake George.

A rationale explanation has been put forward. The need for logic has been satisfied. I may be proved wrong tomorrow (yet again), but for now, I can at least get some sleep!!! :smile2::smile2::smile2:

Mike, any reference you have would be appreciated.
 
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Senor Ken...I will try to find the thread I'm referring to tomorrow and post it for you...
 

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