Toy Soldier Identification (1 Viewer)

[jazzeum]

I acquired these up recently as part of several other figures but have no idea who made them. There are no marks on the bases. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[theBaron]

Hi, Brad, those look like King/White-Reeves. Do the bases show what look like a series of concentric arcs, like they've been cut or ground while spinning? That's one sure sign. I have a K/W catalog around here somewhere, and I can look.

The other possibility, though less likely, is that they were made by Ed Colaric. He also produced a catalog of samurai, that looked very similar to King/White's figures. But I don't think the colors are the same as the ones he used for his.

I'll see what I can find.

Prost!
Brad

 

[jazzeum]

Brad,

I will take a look. Thanks.

Brad

 

[jazzeum]

Brad,

Here are photos of the underside of the bases.

Two of them look more like swirls.

 

[theBaron]

Thanks, Brad, that's what I would expect the undersides to look like.

I apologize but I haven't been able yet to find my King/White-Reeves catalog to compare your photos (if you saw my office, you'd understand). Along with the style of the castings and the painting, I'm more convinced that the first figure is a King/White figure. If I can find that blasted CD, I'll be able to confirm it.

As for the figure in the center and the one on the right, I'm leaning now more towards Ed Colaric's samurai figures. I pulled the ones I have out of storage to compare. I don't have any in the exact poses, but very similar. The bases were painted black, too, like yours. Again, the style of the sculpting and the painted finish is so similar that to me, it's almost 100%.

The figure on the right looks like he should have something in his hands, too, like a lance or a spear.

I'll keep looking through my resources, and looking for my CD. It's got to be in this room, just not where I'm looking.

Prost!
Brad

 

[jazzeum]

Thanks, Brad, that's what I would expect the undersides to look like.

I apologize but I haven't been able yet to find my King/White-Reeves catalog to compare your photos (if you saw my office, you'd understand). Along with the style of the castings and the painting, I'm more convinced that the first figure is a King/White figure. If I can find that blasted CD, I'll be able to confirm it.

As for the figure in the center and the one on the right, I'm leaning now more towards Ed Colaric's samurai figures. I pulled the ones I have out of storage to compare. I don't have any in the exact poses, but very similar. The bases were painted black, too, like yours. Again, the style of the sculpting and the painted finish is so similar that to me, it's almost 100%.

The figure on the right looks like he should have something in his hands, too, like a lance or a spear.

I'll keep looking through my resources, and looking for my CD. It's got to be in this room, just not where I'm looking.

Prost!
Brad

Thanks Brad. I showed them to Mike DeMarco, who says they’re heavy lead. He thought they might be home cast but wasn’t sure.

 

[theBaron]

Thanks Brad. I showed them to Mike DeMarco, who says they’re heavy lead. He thought they might be home cast but wasn’t sure.

Hi, Brad, it's possible, but I don't think it likely that they're homecasts. First, I don't know of anyone who makes samurai molds. I thought perhaps Castings might have, but I checked their catalog (they were sold a few years ago to Dunken down in Texas, https://www.dunken.com/product-category/our-products/molds/castings-molds/) and they don't have any there. It's possible that a hobbyist made his own molds, too, but I still think it's less likely, especially with the kinds of undercuts and projecting pieces on your figures. As for that material, both Reeves and Colaric figures are heavy, too. They're solid-cast in white metal, but with a relatively proportion of lead than the alloys commonly used today.

I took some photos of a couple of King/White-Reeves samurai (left) and Colaric samurai (right), to illustrate the similarities to yours:







They show the similarity in the style of sculpting and painting to yours, and between the two brands, too.

Looking at the undersides of the bases, we see the marks I mentioned, that we find on all Reeves and Colaric figures. They look like either cut or grinder marks, of cleaning up the pour gate marks after the casting was removed from the molds. We can also see that some Reeves figures did have labels, though I think that was less common, at least on the ones I have and have seen. The printing matches the printing that was used on the cards in the vacuformed or clamshell boxes.

So I have to disagree, respectfully, with Mike. But I still have to locate my catalog disc, to be able to identify the figure in the left of your photo definitively, or not. I haven't given up looking.

Prost!
Brad

 

[jazzeum]

Brad, thanks again.

Brad

 

[theBaron]

You're welcome, but thank you! I'm glad to help, and I love a good puzzle. I've got my teeth sunk in it!

This reminds me that I should take pictures of my figures, too, and add a thread with them.

Prost!
Brad

 

[tdubel]

100% King White/Reeves figures made in Hong Kong. Precursor to the K&C days.

But can confirm 100% King White.
Tom

 

[jazzeum]

100% King White/Reeves figures made in Hong Kong. Precursor to the K&C days.

But can confirm 100% King White.
Tom

Thanks. Is King White different than King White Reeves?

 

[tdubel]

Thanks. Is King White different than King White Reeves?

King White is the actual brand, they were the first matte soldier finish produced in Hong Kong by the King White Company run by Mr. Chung. Reeves was the North American conglomerate importer who also branded them as Reeves Toy Soldiers. You will also see them with a Treasure Chest Florida brand on them. Andy of K&C fame first started his own early figures with Mr. Chung's factory. It is a small world.

TD

 

[jazzeum]

King White is the actual brand, they were the first matte soldier finish produced in Hong Kong by the King White Company run by Mr. Chung. Reeves was the North American conglomerate importer who also branded them as Reeves Toy Soldiers. You will also see them with a Treasure Chest Florida brand on them. Andy of K&C fame first started his own early figures with Mr. Chung's factory. It is a small world.

TD

Thanks again.

 

[theBaron]

Thanks, Tom! You're the other person here on the forum who would know about King-White, and I wondered when you'd finally find this discussion!

Regarding the terminology, I refer to them as "King-White/Reeves", because so many people know them as Reeves, since Reeves Intl was probably the biggest outlet for them.

And, I still have not found that @#$%^& disc! I'm going to have to tear everything apart till I wind up like Gene Hackman at the end of "The Conversation".

Prost!
Brad

 

[theBaron]

OK, I finally found my King White CD! I knew I would; it was stuck in a file in one of my filing cabinets. That's what I get for straightening up my office.

The catalog lists 6 samurai figures:



for clarity:

SMR 1 Sekigahara 1600 Tokugawa Ieyasu
SMR 2 Tenko-no-ran AD 940 Taira-no-Masakado
SMR 3 Sekigahara 1600 Bate Masamune
SMR 4 Sekigahara 1600 Honda Tadatsugu
SMR 5 Kuroda Nagasama c 1590
SMR 6 Samurai with naginata c 1590

The catalog has this image of the 6 six figures:


From this, I'm convinced that the first toy soldier in your photo is SMR 2 Taira-no-Masakado, Brad. It looks like the tip of one of the horns on his helmet has broken off, and in your photo, it looks like his scabbard may have broken off, too. That's not unusual; those tended to bend easily at the attachment point and snap off.

Looking more closely at the catalog photo, I agree with Tom that all 3 are King White. The middle figure is SMR 4 Honda Tadatsugu, missing a spear, and the one on the right is SMR 6 Samurai with naginata. He's missing his spear, too.

I hope this all helps! It's been fun digging the info out, and it's always great to see posts of King White figures. They were among the first toy soldiers I collected, as opposed to figures I cast myself or bought and painted. And as we've said, these were the original "Chinese style" figures, the granddaddies, as it were of King & Country and Frontline.

Prost!
Brad

 

[jazzeum]

Thanks for all your work Brad. That’s very helpful.

 

[tdubel]

King White - interesting journey. I actually laugh and say they are the first toy soldiers I ever had and may be the last I end up with! I have nearly the entire catalog, missing only a few Prussians as well as I think 1 chess set. I also have all of the SOHK prototypes including a street diorama. For whatever reason , even with all of the Aeroart figures I own that are one of a kind and priceless, I still love these figures most of all.

TD