Troubles in Ireland? (1 Viewer)

[jazzeum]

With all due respect Rob, there are some threads that set bells ringing and you know it can only go one place: down. This is one of those threads and will probably be deleted or heavy censored. Seeing the passions aroused, I doubt any manufacturer would touch this idea.

 

[Rob]

With all due respect Rob, there are some threads that set bells ringing and you know it can only go one place: down. This is one of those threads and will probably be deleted or heavy censored. Seeing the passions aroused, I doubt any manufacturer would touch this idea.

Yes indeed, however I'm sure Scott was just putting it out there,I'm sure he did not do it to annoy folk.

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

Yes, he was probably just brain storming. I've suggested to the mods that this thread be deleted. I realize this is a highly contentious issue for many people and my suggestion is that you do not post on the topic as I'm sure we don't want to have a civil war on the Forum

 

[Rob]

Yes, he was probably just brain storming. I've suggested to the mods that this thread be deleted. I realize this is a highly contentious issue for many people and my suggestion is that you do not post on the topic as I'm sure we don't want to have a civil war on the Forum

Yep,fair enough Brad, won't post here again.

Rob

 

[jules118]

I think this thread has fallen apart somewhat, into insults, threats and moral issues!. Must be Friday! Lets lighten up guys and return to the issue.


Rob

Agreed Rob ...and I wasn't trying to provoke an argument with you. I was merely trying to make the point that all wars are ugly and to think that civilians are not, at times, deliberately targeted by both sides (even the 'good' guys) is simply disingenuous.

The tactics advocated by Arthur 'Bomber' Harris deliberately caused the deaths of more civilians than the IRA did (and don't get me wrong I am not a supporter, I think that they are terrorists). He advocated the bombing of working class suburbs of German towns to displace the German workforce and disrupt their ability to work. And he continued to support that policy even when Churchill showed his distaste.

It should be emphasized that the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories. - Sir Arthur Harris
(Sokolski, Henry D., ed. Getting MAD: Nuclear Mutual Assured Destruction, Its Origins and Practice. Carlisle, PA: Strategic Studies Institute, U.S. Army War College, 2004. ISBN 1-58487-172-5.)

A supporter of the IRA would probably also argue that their tactics were justified in light of the situation that THEY faced and that they were fighting for their freedom. I disagree with them and I agree with you that the fight against fascism was justified. But I don't think that any war is noble and we are all (myself included) being delusional and more than slightly hypocritical if we passionately embrace one war or side and then pass judgment on those who show an interest in another.

Sorry Rob, not offense meant, just my airing my POV when these discussions degenerate to the moral justification for collecting one army/unit/country/war over another.

Anyway, I'm off to play with my toy soldiers now... have a good one.

 

[Rob]

Agreed Rob ...and I wasn't trying to provoke an argument with you. I was merely trying to make the point that all wars are ugly and to think that civilians are not, at times, deliberately targeted by both sides (even the 'good' guys) is simply disingenuous.

The tactics advocated by Arthur 'Bomber' Harris deliberately caused the deaths of more civilians than the IRA did (and don't get me wrong I am not a supporter, I think that they are terrorists). He advocated the bombing of working class suburbs of German towns to displace the German workforce and disrupt their ability to work. And he continued to support that policy even when Churchill showed his distaste.

It should be emphasized that the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories. - Sir Arthur Harris
(Sokolski, Henry D., ed. Getting MAD: Nuclear Mutual Assured Destruction, Its Origins and Practice. Carlisle, PA: Strategic Studies Institute, U.S. Army War College, 2004. ISBN 1-58487-172-5.)

A supporter of the IRA would probably also argue that their tactics were justified in light of the situation that THEY faced and that they were fighting for their freedom. I disagree with them and I agree with you that the fight against fascism was justified. But I don't think that any war is noble and we are all (myself included) being delusional and more than slightly hypocritical if we passionately embrace one war or side and then pass judgment on those who show an interest in another.

Sorry Rob, not offense meant, just my airing my POV when these discussions degenerate to the moral justification for collecting one army/unit/country/war over another.

Anyway, I'm off to play with my toy soldiers now... have a good one.

Excellent post Jules, very well stated indeed. I not only took no offence but I also really meant none either mate, apologies if it came over wrong.

Bombing of all cities in WW2 was awful, if you are killed from above in the middle of the night it matters not what nation you are from. I do feel quite strongly about the Blitz but of course I am biased as I had family members who suffered because of it, sometimes this leads to an over emotional response, but I would never belittle what happened in Dresden,Hamburg or Berlin, bombing is bombing all the same.

All the best and have a great weekend.

Rob