Value retention/appreciation (3 Viewers)

[Combat]

Retail prices have gone up so much over the last five years that I don't think anyone will be making much reselling. The market also seems saturated with many different competitors which probably stretches out available collector dollars. Some of the older and limited KC items will likely fetch a good return, but you will probably be lucky to recoup the purchase price of any recent stuff. I see dealers with loads of stock sitting on their shelves that they can't move even at retail. Any hobby will have some folks who buy and sell for profit. Many of those are toy soldier enthusiasts. I don't have any issue with that. That seems like more trouble than it's worth to me to make a few dollars, but to each their own.

 

[The Military Workshop]

Hi, Brett,

I should offer a clarification. I'm not questioning his motives. What I took a little bit of exception to was the comment in Vick's reply,

"I'm pretty sure it was obvious from the post that 'making money' wasn't the intention of either the post or the collection."​

I inferred a little bit of a tone of condescension or sarcasm in "I'm sure it was obvious". And given that it was in a thread posted by a new member, as a response to a reply given by a long-time member who simply offered to help with his request, I thought it was a little out of line. If I were the original poster, I would have replied differently, with something like, "Oh, I'm sorry, I should clarify," etc. I'm sure there was no hostile intent in the comment itself, but I just wanted to point out that it's not really the tone we strive for in our discussions here. I apologize if I've caused any misunderstanding.

Prost!
Brad

Brad,
No apology necessary, to me, but what you are saying is that a new member should show some sort of deference to a long standing member. Since I have been on this forum for 11 years I hope the new guys heed your thoughts{sm4}

You made something out of his "tone" when I saw no "tone" at all. In my case I wondered about the "tone" of your welcome with the ! in it . I did think he made it obvious making money was not the point of his collection.

Brett

 

[hotel3alpha]

Thanks very much for being, seemingly, the first to grasp my meaning. The meaning being that after spending X amount of dollars I was simply looking for its value in the world. Think it's best not to post again.

A bit precious on here. Sorry for the intrusion.

...and welcome to the Forum Vicknor! You will find all kinds of love on the forum! Your not intruding kind sir, you are "opening a dialogue" as they say here in the United States. Yup, you will be harassed, questioned, harangued, enlightened, amazed, hailed, congratulated, loathed, loved, hated and corrected for what you post. Yes, it IS a bit precious here, but I guarantee that you will never find a group of guys who are committed to the love of collecting toy soldiers anywhere else in the world.

That's right, in this little forum you will find a wealth of knowledge and experience in the hobby that is second to none. Likewise, you will find the most intelligent and astute collectors known to man. You will also find some dummies too. So, please post again and don't let the banter of my esteemed colleagues get you down...or scare you off. Stand and fight my good man!

Please keep us informed of the secret intelligence you may find when spying on the K&C factory.

John from Texas

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Hello Vicknor,

Well.....Since 2007 when I first discovered King & Country among other brands that make Metal Hand painted figures and quality vehicles I have a few points to add to your question.
If we are talking King & Country specifically for Me personally I have had no disappointments as far as selling the vast amount of Retired items over the years.
Many collectors will sell some items to generate funds to buy something else that may have just been released. Look at the regulars that travel to the Chicago show.
Many buy K&C from private collectors there who sell their Hot, popular Retired items at original Retail price paid while the Hawks swoop in and buy these items
which wind up on E-Bay with a profit margin mark up soon after the show is over ! Fact.......
It comes down to which series and items we are talking about ! WWII German items, especially Retired LAH items for me have realized a 25% - 50% or more return over
the original retail price paid ! When I sold stuff online all of the German items were bought fairly quickly and with a positive profit to boot after online shipping and seller fees
are taken into account. A few years back I had a Collectors Showcase Lichterfeld Barracks HQ Diorama piece that I decided to sell as The dimensions of the building would not
fit in any of my glass curio cabinets. Original retail of the building was $179.00. It sold as an online auction item for $750.00 !!! There are gems out there which will bring
a healthy return, it is just a matter of initially picking the right ones. Most of all be sure to keep the original boxes from your sets ! Very Important as loose, out of box items
may take a hit....In most cases but not all ! As many here will agree with, buy what you personally like and enjoy it for what it brings to you every time you look at your growing
collection. To answer your question from my own experiences....Retention is there as is appreciation.

Wayne

 

[Vicknor]

Wow! Many many very informative responses and thanks very much for that. Just want to say that my collection is an expanding one and the original post was indeed an 'in case of emergency' type post. Living in the most expensive city in the world does make one somewhat paranoid about the collectables, knick-knack, wine, stamps etc etc that have been put aside over the years.

Just also wanted to add that after seeing the quality of pictures on here, I built my own light box last weekend and it's a total shambles I did however spend 8-hours on Sunday photographing my collection and then running off to show my very uninterested wife.

Anyway, from what I can gather, my newly bought pieces will retain or depreciate, my limited run pieces will retain or appreciate and my retired LAH set will do best of all.

Of course, I hope to be staring at them and using my wonky light box for years to come

Looking forward to the shop 'party' on Friday

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Wow! Many many very informative responses and thanks very much for that. Just want to say that my collection is an expanding one and the original post was indeed an 'in case of emergency' type post. Living in the most expensive city in the world does make one somewhat paranoid about the collectables, knick-knack, wine, stamps etc etc that have been put aside over the years.

Just also wanted to add that after seeing the quality of pictures on here, I built my own light box last weekend and it's a total shambles I did however spend 8-hours on Sunday photographing my collection and then running off to show my very uninterested wife.

Anyway, from what I can gather, my newly bought pieces will retain or depreciate, my limited run pieces will retain or appreciate and my retired LAH set will do best of all.

Of course, I hope to be staring at them and using my wonky light box for years to come

Looking forward to the shop 'party' on Friday

Vicknor, Hopefully you will post some of those photos that you took of your collection !

Wayne

 

[gk5717]

Just a comment on the old LAH pieces. Within the last couple of months I sold off my LAH sets, the old ones and I barely broke even.
Gary

 

[jazzeum]

Were you able to sell them on eBay or did you do it here?

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Just a comment on the old LAH pieces. Within the last couple of months I sold off my LAH sets, the old ones and I barely broke even.
Gary

Gary, Which LAH sets were they ?

Wayne

 

[gk5717]

I sold most on ebay, a few here. Don,t remember all the sets but they were of the older variety.
My take on the secondary market is there is just to much product out there and for the old K&C either the "completist" collectors have got what they want and the newer collectors don't want the older pieces as they are of less quality.
Gary

 

[ChrisTay]

There are not enough new collectors chasing old stuff.

Moreover, found that the new collectors from China and emerging economies have too much to catch up. So, they mainly buy the new releases, rather than back track.

Rgds,Chris

 

[jazzeum]

I have not found that to be completely true. I've had several Chinese collectors purchase some of my older items. In addition, some of the older items still do well.

 

[katana]

A generational shift is occuring in collecting Toy Soldiers and many other things as well. The old standards are being replaced by new standards. Toy Soldiers cost 3X+ what they did 15 years ago. The prices asked demand higher quality, greater detail and realism. The success of First Legion despite higher prices than other manufacturers typifies this paradigm shift IMO.

The new holds greater interest than the old for new collectors who are interested in realism, rather than artistic style or tradition. Collectors with technical backgrounds are interested in the finer points of detail and scale.

I have collected antiques for many years and values rise when companies no longer exist i.e. Honor Bound, etc. A Colt Python sells for 3X retail since it was discontinued in about 2000. The same for 1895 Winchesters. Only when a company no longer exists can great profits be realized on collectables. The three rules on antique collecting are, Quality , Condition and Rarity. The three together bring the greatest return on investment. Marklin Toy Cannon are a good example of a durable Toy Soldier investment. Quality examples in excellent condition are always in demand and sell quickly if fairly priced.

 

[bradleyl30]

I have not found that to be completely true. I've had several Chinese collectors purchase some of my older items. In addition, some of the older items still do well.

A lot of my K&C collection went to China for pretty good prices.

Oh, and a fair amount went to Central Europe, as well.

 

[jazzeum]

I've sold a couple of things to people in Poland.

 

[4737 Carlin]

Wow! Many many very informative responses and thanks very much for that. Just want to say that my collection is an expanding one and the original post was indeed an 'in case of emergency' type post. Living in the most expensive city in the world does make one somewhat paranoid about the collectables, knick-knack, wine, stamps etc etc that have been put aside over the years.

Just also wanted to add that after seeing the quality of pictures on here, I built my own light box last weekend and it's a total shambles I did however spend 8-hours on Sunday photographing my collection and then running off to show my very uninterested wife.

Anyway, from what I can gather, my newly bought pieces will retain or depreciate, my limited run pieces will retain or appreciate and my retired LAH set will do best of all.

Of course, I hope to be staring at them and using my wonky light box for years to come

Looking forward to the shop 'party' on Friday

LAH is one of my areas of collecting interest and, although I'm not a seller, I do keep an eye on the prices they are fetching at auction. My observation is that, generally, any retired LAH from around the LAH20's onwards tends to at least make its original value and in some cases exceed it by quite a margin. The really old pieces are quite different in terms of style and detail and don't fit in with the newer LAH pieces - maybe this is why they don't appeal so much. Anyhow, I've certainly not seen retired LAH going for peanuts - they usually attract bids in my experience.

 

[David C]

Interesting stuff.

I have created my collection of 35 ish WW2 K&C tanks over the last year. I am in the UK, and the exchage rate for the USD is not good for us at present, so buying new is expensive. We also get hit by import tax, so typical price for a new Panzer 4 would be £215. A WW2 German soldier is typically £45....so stuff ain't cheap.

However, Ebay has been my main sorce of models, and I have paid between £100 and £200 for most of my tanks.

Items like the Sherman Firefly will normally attract alot of interest and £180-200 seems typical for a good one. So there is a demand for them, and collectors are willing to pay good money for one.

I do not think of my tanks as investment, but I don't want to make too much of a loss or pay too much over the odds. Some times I see a model I purchased at £120, sell for both higher and lower prices later. Sometimes the lower price is due to a bad end time or a to low BIN.
However, I do not want to wait forever to get some of the models I like.

My thinking is that the later K&C offerings are better detailed and capture the flavour of word war 2 perfectly. With material costs, labour , taxes etc, I cannot see the new price dropping in the UK in the near future. I think this will start to increase the price of the second hand items, as the prices for the new items become too painful.

I am 53 now, and I think alot of my Generation still have a good interest in military history. Hopefully we should still be around for another 30 years, so the demand for toy soldiers should not die off too quicky.{sm4}

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Here are a few points from my take here. Since I discovered Metal Toy Soldiers and King & Country to be more specific 10 years ago, I have
had over $*00,000.00 worth of K&C figures and vehicles, Diorama sets, etc pass through my hands either as a Collector, Buyer, or seller.
During this span of ten years never do I recall selling any item or items and taking a loss. Quite the contrary. All comes down to several things :
1) Is the TS item still in new condition with Original boxes
2) How popular was it when initially released and was it from a popular series / era
3) Is it currently retired and sold out.
4) How much will most collectors currently pay over original retail price to buy your Retired item.
Currently I remain in the collector / buyer category
looking to keep all that I acquire. An upcoming Toy Soldier Show may free up some things to wind up replacing sold items with new ones.
Discarding original boxes, packaging, and subjecting your collection to Tobacco smoke, etc along with any Damages will severely affect the value
and appreciation.

Wayne

 

[ChrisTay]

Since I am not a smoker, will someone be kind enough to show what kind of damage does tobacco smoke does to cold metal toy soldiers and polystone/resin AFVs? Any pictures to show the type of damage? Thanks!

 

[ivanmoe]

Since I am not a smoker, will someone be kind enough to show what kind of damage does tobacco smoke does to cold metal toy soldiers and polystone/resin AFVs? Any pictures to show the type of damage? Thanks!

In another life, I came in contact with a lot of computer components. Among these were parts that most people never see. As regards the residue from cigarette smoke, the most interesting impact was found in fan-cooled, power supplies. Particulate in the smoke would cake itself on the capacitors and other surfaces in the PSU until it was completely clogged-up. The result was a yellow, gooey mess that would eventually completely clog and KILL the unit. I brought such dead power supplies home to show my kids when they were in middle school. To this day, as adults, they credit the viewing to the fact that they never had a bit of interest in purposely inhaling cigarette smoke. So, yeah, that same yellow gunk is on your TS, too!

-Moe