Values of sets (1 Viewer)

[uksubs]

Just through my experience, through selling some of my collection. King & Country (And I hate jumping through another Manufacturer, but the opinion needs to be shared) First Legion, attracts people to buy than the other Manufacturer (never had the opportunity to get any Honor Bound Products). For example I had a W. Britain Union civil war Command set 2 piece, that I was selling that the price was getting low, that the set priced at $69.00 is not selling at $45.00. I had an offer of $25.00 shipped, and no higher as he said, which was with me shipping it, I would make $17.00. Which would have been ridiculous. So two choices for me store it or make it a target at the local Shooting range, it did not survive the .308. I put into it. And I sold Collectors Showcase Tanks, Figarti pieces, that was anywhere from $30.00 to $85.00 less than What I paid for it. So what I am trying to say is K&C and First Legion held the value more better than any other manufacturer,. So Buy King & Country or First Legion products, or a third choice just look at pictures, if you think the products are not worth the price. Sorry in advance. If I offend anyone. Thank you.

From my experience it across all manufacturer and if your buying the stuff direct from the UK your in for a even bigger lose I'm sorry to say

 

[Grognard]

Actually my take on the current state of the hobby is that after nearly 10+ years of collecting only Napoleonic, I am running out of new lines to collect within that era. My observation is most of the manufacturers (FL possibly being the exception) are looping into the same regiments/countries and therefor there is no much innovation IMHO. I understand that this is a business and you want to produce the most popular lines but for long term collectors choice is drying up quickly after a few years. A little risk taking would come a long way to re-energize this hobby and keep the collectors buying!

 

[King & Country]

Hi Guys,

Plenty of interesting comments and thoughts…Buying and selling on the secondary market is always going to be full of ups and downs depending on a host of outside conditions…the state of the economy being probably the biggest. However personal considerations also play a big part – “How quickly does a seller need the money?” How desperate is a buyer for that particular piece?” And, of course, “How many people are on the lookout for that same piece?”

And that is just a small sampling I am sure you guys could add even more provisos…

If I may I’ll come back to my central point…Buy what you like, when you like and how you like.

Forums like this are useful, fun and can be informative BUT they are only a very small part of a much larger picture.

For the record I’ve never sold anything on ebay but I have picked up several “hard-to-find” items (Royal Marine Bands) that I could not find at toy soldier shows or with dealers.

Anyway, best wishes and happy collecting!

Andy C.​

P.S. By the by Brad…What exactly is “Sturm and Drang” and how exactly does it refer to yours truly and anything I may (or may not) own in the U.S.?

 

[zulucollector]

I hate to be Captain Obvious, but something is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. It doesn't matter whether it is K&C or fine art or antiques. To that end the fluctuation in the marketplace is both unpredictable and imprecise.

Not worrying about new releases as they have a set price (floor) dictated by the manufacturer, the secondary market gives you a good insight to the sentiment of our hobby today. I agree there is some randomness ie irrational buying and selling on ebay. However, I believe you will notice in good times that prices on the secondary market should rise as people have more disposable income and willing to buy more and or pay more and bad times the opposite as people sell items or just buy less. When you are worrying about house payments during the financial crisis ie great recession, selling your collection or buying less makes a lot of sense. As we are talking about the secondary market we don't have to worry about recent price increases being factored into the mix. The other outlier is production, I am guessing that some of the older sets had smaller production runs or were simply limited edition. My opinion is simply that sellers outnumber buyers this summer... if you are consistently getting good prices it is likely a trend not luck....

 

[jazzeum]

Andy,

The first part of the post was made mostly in jest. Sturm und drang is a late 18th century literary and music movement but is commonly used today to mean turmoil, emotion, etc. and I thought your post was a little sturm und drang. The comment about the lowly sergeant was tongue in cheek but had nothing to do with sturm und drang but that you called yourself a "lowly" sergeant" (which I'm sure was also tongue in cheek) :wink2:

So now, I find out that you're one of those who bid against me on those bands {eek3} As you may know, I love those old glossy K & C bands and have quite a few. Love to see you make those someday. How about starting a small glossy division. Sure you'd draw a few collectors, although maybe not enough to justify the investment. Sigh...

Cheers,

Brad

P.S. I've almost finished completing my Arnhem collection; got my second Jeep ^&cool

 

[jazzeum]

Not worrying about new releases as they have a set price (floor) dictated by the manufacturer, the secondary market gives you a good insight to the sentiment of our hobby today. I agree there is some randomness ie irrational buying and selling on ebay. However, I believe you will notice in good times that prices on the secondary market should rise as people have more disposable income and willing to buy more and or pay more and bad times the opposite as people sell items or just buy less. When you are worrying about house payments during the financial crisis ie great recession, selling your collection or buying less makes a lot of sense. As we are talking about the secondary market we don't have to worry about recent price increases being factored into the mix. The other outlier is production, I am guessing that some of the older sets had smaller production runs or were simply limited edition. My opinion is simply that sellers outnumber buyers this summer... if you are consistently getting good prices it is likely a trend not luck....

Some of the older pieces did have limited production, just because there weren't many collectors back then. I recently sold a WS 23 Winter Panther. I need to reduce the size of my collection as I'm getting older and thinking of moving in a couple of years and this tank was never a big favorite. It didn't draw the price I had hoped for but it wasn't horrible either. I'm sure the price could be a variety of factors but that is the reality.

 

[PolarBear]

Just through my experience, through selling some of my collection. King & Country (And I hate jumping through another Manufacturer, but the opinion needs to be shared) First Legion, attracts people to buy than the other Manufacturer (never had the opportunity to get any Honor Bound Products). For example I had a W. Britain Union civil war Command set 2 piece, that I was selling that the price was getting low, that the set priced at $69.00 is not selling at $45.00. I had an offer of $25.00 shipped, and no higher as he said, which was with me shipping it, I would make $17.00. Which would have been ridiculous. So two choices for me store it or make it a target at the local Shooting range, it did not survive the .308. I put into it. And I sold Collectors Showcase Tanks, Figarti pieces, that was anywhere from $30.00 to $85.00 less than What I paid for it. So what I am trying to say is K&C and First Legion held the value more better than any other manufacturer,. So Buy King & Country or First Legion products, or a third choice just look at pictures, if you think the products are not worth the price. Sorry in advance. If I offend anyone. Thank you.

I have found that W. Britain items are extremely hard to sell on the secondary market even at give away prices. I don't understand this since they make some very nice items for collectors.

 

[zulucollector]

I have found that W. Britain items are extremely hard to sell on the secondary market even at give away prices. I don't understand this since they make some very nice items for collectors.

Oversupply is likely why the resale value is so weak and they have way too many dealers competiting for the same customers...... while many items are retired there always seems to be a dealer with one of them.... I only speculate for profit on the collector club figs and some of the early edition AZW sets. I think they are addressing it with limited edition sets with many sold out before they are released albeit still available from dealers.

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

Lots of good, interesting opinions...

Here is my 2 cents worth, only for discussion purposes...

I have been analyzing and observing how this hobby has been evolving for several years now. I have attended some shows, read a lot of posts on TF and "other" forums and gathered a multitude of opinions from retailers in the hobby. The facts seem to suggest that this hobby may have hit a peak sometime in the last decade, likely just before the financial crisis hit around 2007/2008. Aside from the obvious reason for a slip in sales and interest at that time, another reason why the hobby may be in decline is that sometime in the last decade a lot of collectors likely hit their peak earning years and now are more concerned about retirement. With retirement comes downsizing in most cases. Downsizing to fund other priorities. I am now seeing a lot of spectacular collections for sale. How will the marketplace absorb all of this product? It is all about supply and demand, I suppose. The likelihood of another surge in collecting as seen in the time period between 1998 to about 2008 is not realistic since the collector base is shrinking, not expanding. There just aren't enough kids coming from generations since the 1970's who have a nostalgic connection to toy soldiers. If you have visited an Apple Store or Microsoft Store in the last several years, that's where you will see them in droves! Current production item prices (Nearly double in 5 years!) have also made it prohibitive for more potential collectors entering this hobby. Although, this has always been a niche hobby, it is likely to continue to shrink in coming years.

Now we come to values... My opinion is that we will "generally" continue to see a decrease in values for most items for resale in this hobby for a lot of reasons. I am seeing a lot of product selling for below retail. There will always be that rare set that someone wants that may be bid up in price by those collectors with the financial resources to do so but generally that will be the exception and not the rule. A lot of the speculators that entered this hobby in the last decade have disappeared! It also seems that collectors have become wise to the speculation and refuse to encourage that practice by avoiding purchases at inflated prices. Good for them! That was never meant to be what this hobby or any hobby, for that matter, should be about...

Anyway, that is my 2 cents worth...

:salute::

 

[Charlie Brown]

I have found that W. Britain items are extremely hard to sell on the secondary market even at give away prices. I don't understand this since they make some very nice items for collectors.

As in any market resale value demand dictates price. Collectors are an ageing breed. Fewer people now collect for a variety of reasons. Finally space is an issue as well.

 

[PolarBear]

Oversupply is likely why the resale value is so weak and they have way too many dealers competiting for the same customers...... while many items are retired there always seems to be a dealer with one of them.... I only speculate for profit on the collector club figs and some of the early edition AZW sets. I think they are addressing it with limited edition sets with many sold out before they are released albeit still available from dealers.

Thanks. That sounds like a very reasonable explanation.

 

[ChrisTay]

Some thoughts to ponder on:

As in anything that you collect, you win some, you lose some. Do you expect to win all the time in everything that you collect? Then, it is better that you spend lots of time with your dealers who are the one who know what is hot.

is the collector pool expanding? Is the economy doing great? So, this goes without saying that it has to do with timing.

What to you is the opportunity cost of spending on these toy soldiers? Money that could be invested somewhere else. How would you price the enjoyment that you derive from owning these figures?

The prettiest model or figure need not be the one that appreciates the most. Sometimes, quirky stuff that do not sell well come up higher after retirements. Good call or bad call...

if there are two or more eager beavers, the chances of bidding going up is much higher. Again, timing and luck.

Do you collect for investment? Do you collect like a completist? The former means you have to speculate on a potential future demand and be right in your call. The latter means some of your items may do well, some will not.

Purchase on the secondary market that you bought at an appreciated prices is unlikely to appreciate further, unless you have royalty looking for the same sets, cost no object scenario. Or there is any dime store perking up prices.

I must say that even as I sell my spare sets that appreciated, they have been ploughed back to buy more new releases. So, it is a hobby. When you cash out, it is no longer a hobby.


Finally, if you enjoy toy soldiers, then just like what Andy said, buy what you like...

Rgds,Chris

 

[Panzer ace]

Again, I think the value of retired K&C sets is dependent upon what people are willing to pay for them.

In the past I have mentioned certain artwork we have in our home. About 15 years ago an aspiring artist who trained with my wife could not afford to pay cash for the training instead gave my wife a few paintings. I never thought anything of them, my wife likes them so they are displayed prominently around or home. We recently decided to have a homeowner insurance review done for the contents and value of our house. When the adjuster got back to us about the art work I almost passed out. They verified the artist who has become quite famous. Since they are originals the value absolutely shocked me because there is no way I would pay that much for any of her work. However, obviously someone is so that is what they are worth.

 

[maddadicus]

Again, I think the value of retired K&C sets is dependent upon what people are willing to pay for them.

In the past I have mentioned certain artwork we have in our home. About 15 years ago an aspiring artist who trained with my wife could not afford to pay cash for the training instead gave my wife a few paintings. I never thought anything of them, my wife likes them so they are displayed prominently around or home. We recently decided to have a homeowner insurance review done for the contents and value of our house. When the adjuster got back to us about the art work I almost passed out. They verified the artist who has become quite famous. Since they are originals the value absolutely shocked me because there is no way I would pay that much for any of her work. However, obviously someone is so that is what they are worth.

Don Troiani was/is one of the famous ACW era painters for a number of years to the present. At one time ( 7-10 years ago ), if you missed the original release of an offering, the speculators bought it out, creating an artificial, man made demand. The original release may have been for $350-$400, but with the scarcity of the prints, soon became double or triple the price. A few years ago, the market bubble blew up and the speculation collapsed, releasing so much product into the market that I was able to buy once $1500 -$2000 prints for $300.....And so it is with TS..Michael

 

[braddinpa]

Agreed with M and Andy. Buy what you like because you enjoy it. Not because of what you think it might be worth. Collectables are a horrible investment. (I recall the Wallstreet journal doing an article about 10 years or so when we had the great crash and people were running from the market and investing in Collectibles. They said bad move!). Even my own experience in collecting Civil War paper which goes back to the late 80's. Because of Gettysburg and glory and the 125th. Civil War was hot! I just for the heck of it looked in an old price guide I had from 1990 and it listed a Kershaw ALS for 1600. Now. you are looking at around 400. (and don't blame it on the president). The prices for Civil war paper went way down and have remained down for about 10 plus years because the interest is not there. But that is why when I buy a diary or letter or whatever. I don't look at how much I can sell it for. I just enjoy it. And the same should be for Toy soldiers. Buy them because you enjoy them. Not because you can sell them for a profit in a year or two. Have fun! Brad

 

[spartan71]

I got into this hobby because I love toy Soldiers, never really getting past the amazement of how each figure looks. So I really never looked at it as an investment. And a loss is expected. But that being said, for it to not even hold half of its original value. Well that in the other hand, well hurts. I just do not have the space to store, all of my collection, for a year. That is one of the reasons I am selling some.

 

[johnnybach]

I wouldn't have a clue as to how much any of my collection of TS is worth - as I have never, ever, sold one. I buy most of mine as either castings - or broken ones anyway - so am probably at the least costly end of the market anyway - so they don't have as much distance to fall as some of the more expensive figures I can think about

BUT - as I stated - I don't know because I have NEVER parted with one yet - and I've been collecting them for nearly 17 years now. If you don't love them - don't buy them. And if you DO love them - how on earth can you contemplate them leaving you!! Johnnybach

 

[jazzeum]

No offense to my namesake and fellow Civil War student, Brad in Pa, or anyone else for that matter, but the phrase "buy what you like" is an odd one. Who, after all, buys what he doesn't like. It's sort of like the phrase "Drive safely," as if I will go out and purposefully drive dangerously. They're well intentioned phrases but largely devoid of meaning.

Regsrding Johnny's comment, after a few years in this hobby I learned not to fall in love or became ensmored over material possessions. There are some that I like more than others but if I had to sell a chunk of my collection to help fund a purchase of a new house or pay for the education of a child, it wouldn't bother in my least because these are material things only and there are more important things in life.

Moreover, as we get older and need to downsize, you start to think about reducing the size of your material possessions, not just toy soldiers.

Brad

 

[johnnybach]

No offense to my namesake and fellow Civil War student, Brad in Pa, or anyone else for that matter, but the phrase "buy what you like" is an odd one. Who, after all, buys what he doesn't like. It's sort of like the phrase "Drive safely," as if I will go out and purposefully drive dangerously. They're well intentioned phrases but largely devoid of meaning.

Regsrding Johnny's comment, after a few years in this hobby I learned not to fall in love or became ensmored over material possessions. There are some that I like more than others but if I had to sell a chunk of my collection to help fund a purchase of a new house or pay for the education of a child, it wouldn't bother in my least because these are material things only and there are more important things in life.

Moreover, as we get older and need to downsize, you start to think about reducing the size of your material possessions, not just toy soldiers.

Brad

Well, that's okay Brad - just hasn't happened to me yet - and I'll be 71 this year!:^&grin...............maybe when I get old.............

 

[Toy Soldier Brigade]

No offense to my namesake and fellow Civil War student, Brad in Pa, or anyone else for that matter, but the phrase "buy what you like" is an odd one. Who, after all, buys what he doesn't like. It's sort of like the phrase "Drive safely," as if I will go out and purposefully drive dangerously. They're well intentioned phrases but largely devoid of meaning.

Regsrding Johnny's comment, after a few years in this hobby I learned not to fall in love or became ensmored over material possessions. There are some that I like more than others but if I had to sell a chunk of my collection to help fund a purchase of a new house or pay for the education of a child, it wouldn't bother in my least because these are material things only and there are more important things in life.

Moreover, as we get older and need to downsize, you start to think about reducing the size of your material possessions, not just toy soldiers.

Brad

We'll if your married you have probably bought a few things you didn't like {eek3}. I now they're is nothing like the thrill of handing over a couple of grand for a Gucci or Louis Vuitton handbag. Then to make it even better having to stand outside a fitting room and getting stuck holding it while she tries on clothes.