Values of sets (1 Viewer)

No offense to my namesake and fellow Civil War student, Brad in Pa, or anyone else for that matter, but the phrase "buy what you like" is an odd one. Who, after all, buys what he doesn't like. It's sort of like the phrase "Drive safely," as if I will go out and purposefully drive dangerously. They're well intentioned phrases but largely devoid of meaning.

Brad

Hey Brad ... ya' I would generally agree with that statement .... with one small exception.

There is a (small group :rolleyes2: ) of folks who will have to purchase a piece just to have that sense of being 100% complete whether they like it or not. I believe that I have heard the term on here as a ... Completest. I had a neighbor who needed some videos in a tutorial woodworking series. I think there were 10 0r 12 in the entire series but he really only needed two. He "HAD" to get the entire series and "Complete" the collection ....^&confuse

There might be folks who don't really like a figure in (say) the AK series but HAS to get it just to be complete ...

As far as "Drive Safely" goes .... come to Maine for a few days and you might change your mind on that one ....{sm4} {sm4}

--- Larry
 
We'll if your married you have probably bought a few things you didn't like {eek3}. I now they're is nothing like the thrill of handing over a couple of grand for a Gucci or Louis Vuitton handbag. Then to make it even better having to stand outside a fitting room and getting stuck holding it while she tries on clothes.

Been there - got the T shirt!!:D:D priceless. Thanks for making me laugh!! -:D jb
 
We'll if your married you have probably bought a few things you didn't like {eek3}. I now they're is nothing like the thrill of handing over a couple of grand for a Gucci or Louis Vuitton handbag. Then to make it even better having to stand outside a fitting room and getting stuck holding it while she tries on clothes.

Ok, totally hanging myself out to dry but just like older K&C sets, Chanel nail polish can be very valuable in the secondary market. I try and buy my wife every color that comes out (seriously, how many times can a woman paint their nails?) but every once in awhile I miss one and once the color is gone good luck finding it at retail. I have searched far and wide for some and more often than not I have found them on eBay. From time to time I will give up on finding one and my wife will jokingly tell me that I would not give up so easily if it was a rare K&C set.
 
Again, I think the value of retired K&C sets is dependent upon what people are willing to pay for them.

In the past I have mentioned certain artwork we have in our home. About 15 years ago an aspiring artist who trained with my wife could not afford to pay cash for the training instead gave my wife a few paintings. I never thought anything of them, my wife likes them so they are displayed prominently around or home. We recently decided to have a homeowner insurance review done for the contents and value of our house. When the adjuster got back to us about the art work I almost passed out. They verified the artist who has become quite famous. Since they are originals the value absolutely shocked me because there is no way I would pay that much for any of her work. However, obviously someone is so that is what they are worth.

To be honest I don't think you can compare toy soldier to art to be fair , one made in china in there hundreds by low skill workers and the second is a one person work of art .
 
To be honest I don't think you can compare toy soldier to art to be fair , one made in china in there hundreds by low skill workers and the second is a one person work of art .

To clarify I am not directly comparing toy soldiers to art. My example was meant to show that the value of an item can't be summed up by the owner of said piece. As I stated in my case, there is no way I would pay anything close to what the paintings are worth but others are, hence their value.
 
Been reading this thread and some of you have made some excellent and interesting comments.

I've been collecting for over 50 years, been a full time retailer for 18.

IMO, the economy has little to do with any of this. I travel quite a bit to shows (ok, I don't do 50, but I do more than my fair share) and the roads, hotels and restaurants are all crowded. At the shows, the crowds are still there and they are spending money, that is for sure as if they were not, I wouldn't keep going.

As far as collectors; when you collect anything for a long period of time, at some point, I don't care how big your house is, you are going to run out of room. One of my long time customers started with one curio cabinet in his computer room, then he had two, then three, then he remodeled his basement and put beautiful shelving in and bought several more cabinets. Fast forward to today and all the shelves are filled, all the cabinets are too.

He has slowed down quite a bit in his purchasing, money has nothing to do with it, space has everything to do with it. He either has to sell some stuff to make room, do more remodeling, or stop collecting, it's that simple.

I see several of you in this thread who used to buy from me; some of you have told me about the space issue and you're slowing down, others have moved on to other dealers, it is what it is.

At some point, you have to wonder as you get older, how much is enough, when to say when, a couple of you have told me your sons/grandsons have zero interest in toy soldiers, so what's going to happen to your collections when you are gone? Some soul searching is being done as to when to say when.

This year, I have been offered the most collections than any year previously and it's only July; have passed on several, have purchased others. The issue there is who is going to buy all of this aftermarket stuff, it's sad but this is not a young mans hobby, I'd venture to guess the average collector is 40 to 70, with the heart of that age group being 50 to 65. As more and more collections come on the market, the value of things is going to drop, it's called supply and demand. Also, as collectors age, retire, downsize and move to smaller homes, get sick and pass away, more and more collections are going to come on the market and again, who's going to buy all of this stuff or more importantly, what are they going to be wiling to pay.

This hobby, like any hobby, has brought out the speculators, who buy several of a limited edition item with the hope of flipping it to people waiting in line to buy it. From what I've seen the past few years, there aren't a lot of people waiting in that line.

The real issue as a couple of you have pointed out is the way a hobby grows is by new collectors coming into the hobby and buying new items. As a kid, I lived and breathed toy soldiers, as did all of my friends. I got out of the hobby for awhile, then got back in for nostalgia purposes and to relive my childhood, I've got a lot of great memories of toy soldiers from when I was a kid.

Who in this country under the age of 40 has great childhood memories of toy soldiers; they have great memories of their first smartphone, laptop, first person shooter computer game, Iphone, Ipad or whatever other gadget they had as that is what they grew up on, not toy soldiers.

Unless you bring new blood into a hobby, the hobby will eventually flatline and the values will tank.

I love this hobby, I love this business, I will continue to do both going forward, I am a lifer and I'm proud of it. Toy soldiers combined with my love of history equals a great, great hobby, wouldn't trade it for the world. Being in the business has afforded me a very nice lifestyle, not to mention I've met hundreds of people I never would have met otherwise, a great side benefit to all of this and we all share a love for the hobby, it's a great club to belong to IMO.

Appreciate it for what it is, try not to get caught up in the negativity, life is too short, enjoy the ride everyone as it's a one way ticket with no refunds, exchanges or do overs...........
 
I don't think it can be better said than George just did ^&cool
 
Thanks Gildenante,

Im so sorry that Toysoldier Paris will close his shop.

Not a good sign at all.

He had moved his shop and had it completely renovated.

I had a very good service with the Gentlemen there.

I hope for the best to him.

Serge.
 
Just to put my 2 cents,

As a new collector myself, i do find that my biggest issue here is -----> Space.

And this problem might come at the expense of slowing me down in my future purchases.
Money is not the real issue for me.

Just to let you all know, this autumn, or next spring i need to do some upgrade to my current house to exhibit everything i have, and that means lots of money just to have the space for my current collection and maybe for 2 more years of buying stuff.

After that im pretty sure i will slow down very rapidly on the quantity i buy from my distributors, and this will be a major slowdown on their revenue. Because of the space issue.

I just dont want to have like im doing right now and have a super collection and have everything in a storage room that i rent each month and not enjoying every piece that i do own.

Thanks


Serge. :)
 
Been reading this thread and some of you have made some excellent and interesting comments.

I've been collecting for over 50 years, been a full time retailer for 18.

IMO, the economy has little to do with any of this. I travel quite a bit to shows (ok, I don't do 50, but I do more than my fair share) and the roads, hotels and restaurants are all crowded. At the shows, the crowds are still there and they are spending money, that is for sure as if they were not, I wouldn't keep going.

As far as collectors; when you collect anything for a long period of time, at some point, I don't care how big your house is, you are going to run out of room. One of my long time customers started with one curio cabinet in his computer room, then he had two, then three, then he remodeled his basement and put beautiful shelving in and bought several more cabinets. Fast forward to today and all the shelves are filled, all the cabinets are too.

He has slowed down quite a bit in his purchasing, money has nothing to do with it, space has everything to do with it. He either has to sell some stuff to make room, do more remodeling, or stop collecting, it's that simple.

I see several of you in this thread who used to buy from me; some of you have told me about the space issue and you're slowing down, others have moved on to other dealers, it is what it is.

At some point, you have to wonder as you get older, how much is enough, when to say when, a couple of you have told me your sons/grandsons have zero interest in toy soldiers, so what's going to happen to your collections when you are gone? Some soul searching is being done as to when to say when.

This year, I have been offered the most collections than any year previously and it's only July; have passed on several, have purchased others. The issue there is who is going to buy all of this aftermarket stuff, it's sad but this is not a young mans hobby, I'd venture to guess the average collector is 40 to 70, with the heart of that age group being 50 to 65. As more and more collections come on the market, the value of things is going to drop, it's called supply and demand. Also, as collectors age, retire, downsize and move to smaller homes, get sick and pass away, more and more collections are going to come on the market and again, who's going to buy all of this stuff or more importantly, what are they going to be wiling to pay.

This hobby, like any hobby, has brought out the speculators, who buy several of a limited edition item with the hope of flipping it to people waiting in line to buy it. From what I've seen the past few years, there aren't a lot of people waiting in that line.

The real issue as a couple of you have pointed out is the way a hobby grows is by new collectors coming into the hobby and buying new items. As a kid, I lived and breathed toy soldiers, as did all of my friends. I got out of the hobby for awhile, then got back in for nostalgia purposes and to relive my childhood, I've got a lot of great memories of toy soldiers from when I was a kid.

Who in this country under the age of 40 has great childhood memories of toy soldiers; they have great memories of their first smartphone, laptop, first person shooter computer game, Iphone, Ipad or whatever other gadget they had as that is what they grew up on, not toy soldiers.

Unless you bring new blood into a hobby, the hobby will eventually flatline and the values will tank.

I love this hobby, I love this business, I will continue to do both going forward, I am a lifer and I'm proud of it. Toy soldiers combined with my love of history equals a great, great hobby, wouldn't trade it for the world. Being in the business has afforded me a very nice lifestyle, not to mention I've met hundreds of people I never would have met otherwise, a great side benefit to all of this and we all share a love for the hobby, it's a great club to belong to IMO.

Appreciate it for what it is, try not to get caught up in the negativity, life is too short, enjoy the ride everyone as it's a one way ticket with no refunds, exchanges or do overs...........

George:

As always, great post.

I have always wondered about the "age" of collectors. If you look back to your days of selling as a retailer before smart phones etc., were they really that many young kids in the hobby? I did not get into the hobby until I was 3 years out of college and most of that was due to a lack of funds. Even at late 90's and early 2000 prices this has never been an inexpensive passion.

I am just wondering if the hobby needs more 30-40 year olds as opposed to kids?

-Jason
 
Well...................Interesting take on it all here. As Warrior mentioned dedicated collectors will eventually have only so much room in their homes for collecting, add to that keeping all of your boxes from your sets. Many core collectors sell some items to make way for new ones, while others may add another area of interest to their current collections.....I;E a WWII collector adding the Alamo series, etc. New collectors are an important staple of this Hobby, bringing in new blood to our "Niche" Hobby.
As I finish out my last 2 weeks here in New Jersey I have met several new people that have come by the family house here where I am staying at and are simply amazed
at the detail and quality of the K&C figures and vehicles that I show them. They simply did not know that these type of soldiers and vehicles actually existed ! Much as I myself
did not know over 8 years ago. My philosophy is show as many people as possible the great products that help make up our Hobby, and possibly out of every 10 or so new faces that see and hold these collectibles for the very first time, one may become a new enthusiast and collector. I agree that true History buffs of Military History are some
of the most motivated collectors to enter the Hobby. Ever since I bought my own very first King & Country WWII set back in 2007 I have been hooked ever since. I also enjoy helping others in the hobby find that one figure, vehicle, or set that that have been wanting to acquire, at a fair price !
Just an hour ago on line I lost bidding on a retired K&C WWII German Ski Troops set that I wanted and never had. I believe the original retail was around $64.00 and I lost the auction to a bidder that paid $109.00 for this new in box, retired set. Another example of that mysterious "Values Of Sets" question that pops up every now and then.
 
George:

As always, great post.

I have always wondered about the "age" of collectors. If you look back to your days of selling as a retailer before smart phones etc., were they really that many young kids in the hobby? I did not get into the hobby until I was 3 years out of college and most of that was due to a lack of funds. Even at late 90's and early 2000 prices this has never been an inexpensive passion.

I am just wondering if the hobby needs more 30-40 year olds as opposed to kids?

-Jason

Jason,
Thanks for the kind words.

The hobby needs kids; the problem with kids is they get older, go to high school, learn to drive a car, discover women and bye bye toy soldiers. The hope is they come back to the hobby like myself and others I know did.

I was at a cook out yesterday and today and there were about 25 kids there aged 10-22, not a single one had ever heard of toy soldiers, nor do any of them care about them, all they cared about was the newest gadget, the newest sneakers and were there anymore hamburgers.

You also hope they start out with plastics and come back later once they are working and discover metal and keep going; if they stick with plastic, that's fine with me as they are joining the ranks of collectors.

What the hobby really needs is 30 to 40 year olds; those who have some disposable income and can afford the hobby. The problem with that age group is 30 to 40 is the time a lot of men get married, start a family and buy a home, none of which are cheap, not sure if there is any room left for the average person to add toy soldiers to that mix.

Over the past couple of years, I've tapped into a new market and am very excited about the possibilities of expanding it, I thought it might be a good market, went after it and it's been very good to me since about 2010, am excited to see where it leads..................
 
Jason,
Thanks for the kind words.

The hobby needs kids; the problem with kids is they get older, go to high school, learn to drive a car, discover women and bye bye toy soldiers. The hope is they come back to the hobby like myself and others I know did.

I was at a cook out yesterday and today and there were about 25 kids there aged 10-22, not a single one had ever heard of toy soldiers, nor do any of them care about them, all they cared about was the newest gadget, the newest sneakers and were there anymore hamburgers.

You also hope they start out with plastics and come back later once they are working and discover metal and keep going; if they stick with plastic, that's fine with me as they are joining the ranks of collectors.

What the hobby really needs is 30 to 40 year olds; those who have some disposable income and can afford the hobby. The problem with that age group is 30 to 40 is the time a lot of men get married, start a family and buy a home, none of which are cheap, not sure if there is any room left for the average person to add toy soldiers to that mix.

Over the past couple of years, I've tapped into a new market and am very excited about the possibilities of expanding it, I thought it might be a good market, went after it and it's been very good to me since about 2010, am excited to see where it leads..................

George:

That all makes sense, thanks for taking the time to respond.

-Jason
 
Hi Guys,

I have to disagree with "UK Subs" disparaging comments about "low-skilled Chinese workers producing hundreds of any particular item" in reference I assume to toy soldiers and vehicles etc. It's my experience and I am sure other toy soldier companies producing in China that the Chinese work force is highly skilled and very hard-working! If it were not so then K&C and all the others would have moved elsewhere a long time ago.

At the same time I do believe in the "Art of Toy Soldiers" and think that plays a large part of its appeal to many collectors of all stripes and persuasions. So enjoy what you like and celebrate the many diverse styles and artistry of this little industry of ours and say a little Thankyou to all those hard-working sculptors, casters and painters in China whose output helps make this hobby so enjoyable.

Best wishes and happy collecting!

Andy C.
 
Based on my experiences, professional and otherwise, Chinese workers are highly skilled. It's more likely than not that if you use an iPhone, it's probably made in China.
 
Based on my experiences, professional and otherwise, Chinese workers are highly skilled. It's more likely than not that if you use an iPhone, it's probably made in China.

Brad if there highly skilled I hope they would get great wages like we get in the West but we all know why stuff get made out in China it cheap labour and high profit for the company's
 
Hi Guys,

I have to disagree with "UK Subs" disparaging comments about "low-skilled Chinese workers producing hundreds of any particular item" in reference I assume to toy soldiers and vehicles etc. It's my experience and I am sure other toy soldier companies producing in China that the Chinese work force is highly skilled and very hard-working! If it were not so then K&C and all the others would have moved elsewhere a long time ago.

At the same time I do believe in the "Art of Toy Soldiers" and think that plays a large part of its appeal to many collectors of all stripes and persuasions. So enjoy what you like and celebrate the many diverse styles and artistry of this little industry of ours and say a little Thankyou to all those hard-working sculptors, casters and painters in China whose output helps make this hobby so enjoyable.

Best wishes and happy collecting!

Andy C.
Andy we all know why you and other company's make stuff in china it cheap labour ,I hope there working condition and there wages are as good as your figures you make also I was was not having a dig at the worker of China but I bet there not the ones making all the money ^&grin
 
Hi Guys,

I have to disagree with "UK Subs" disparaging comments about "low-skilled Chinese workers producing hundreds of any particular item" in reference I assume to toy soldiers and vehicles etc. It's my experience and I am sure other toy soldier companies producing in China that the Chinese work force is highly skilled and very hard-working! If it were not so then K&C and all the others would have moved elsewhere a long time ago.

At the same time I do believe in the "Art of Toy Soldiers" and think that plays a large part of its appeal to many collectors of all stripes and persuasions. So enjoy what you like and celebrate the many diverse styles and artistry of this little industry of ours and say a little Thankyou to all those hard-working sculptors, casters and painters in China whose output helps make this hobby so enjoyable.

Best wishes and happy collecting!

Andy C.
Andy you could call your stuff art A Panther tank painted the wrong colour in a K&C impressionist way with the pice tag to match ^&grin happy collecting :salute:: joke
 
Hi UK,

I do understand your point about cheap labor and having the highest return in profits for all those companies, but....

I still prefer they were made in China then in USA or United Kingdom, can you imagine the price we would pay for the same piece ?

And maybe thats what cause the fall of Honour Bound in Argentina, labor was way above China.


Serge. :)
 

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