Vichy French (1 Viewer)

Combat

Combat

Brigadier General
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I assume the new camel corps figures will be arriving soon. Any opinions on whether these guys go with the Germans or the allies?
 
They go with the Germans. Vichy was part of the German empire. If they converted over, they became Free French.
 
jazzeum said:
They go with the Germans. Vichy was part of the German empire. If they converted over, they became Free French.
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I thought they were somewhat autonomous at least in terms of colonies such as in N. Africa.
 
They are FRENCH - they are in a class by themselves :eek: - they were on everyones side :D - take your pick :p
 
The preceeding message was stated as an historic fact - not a slight against french men or french women or french men who like french women - nor is the statement to be taken as a ugly american statement. All readers please realize the comments are not meant to be political in anyway - nor are they sponsored by any political party within the United States or its Allies or any other Country who wishes harm to the US. Also the United Nations has confirmed the french were active in both Armies of the Allies and Axis and these statements cannot be mistaken for political commentary and should be viewed as historic fact.

I think that disclaimer should work for me. :)
 
LOL Ron!

Love the idea of a disclaimer!

Rob
 
I just them as free french .
good or bath the are great figuurs !! .
richard .:)
 
jazzeum said:
They go with the Germans. Vichy was part of the German empire. If they converted over, they became Free French.
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Not strictly true but certainly prior to Operation Torch it's as good a yardstick as any. The US Fifth Army ended up with the former Vichy troops as the 'French Expeditionary Corps' (CEF)whilst de Gaulle's smaller Free French troops ended up tagged on to the British 8th Army for a while.

In the Italian campaign the former Vichy troops were largely re-equiped with American material (not a popular choice with the Algerian and Moroccan infantry or mountain divisions) but it still retained much of its former structure as Armée d'Afrique (white European pied noir officers, with other ranks mainly African). By the time the Italian campaign had reached Rome (5th June 1944) and the D-Day landings had taken place the next day in Normandy it became more logical to seek to consolidate the former Vichy and Free French forces, particularly in the light of the plans for the invasion of the French riveria. However, the animosity was still so high it kept plans from coming to anything.

The former Vichy forces had quite a few experienced officers from the time of the fall of France but that was no advantage really, as they'd lost previously (and their best men were POWs who were not released by the Germans upon the conclusion of hostilities in France).

Of the Vichy officers worth looking at see Alphonse Juin and the CEF:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_Juin

Overall you could probably put these Vichy troops in either hands, but I'd be surprised if they weren't meant to be used as German allies in the laughably 'neutral' Magreb territories. The irony of the Torch landings is that it snared the rattlesnake Darlan, who had a mysterious conversion to the Allied cause, but his presence actually made it far easier for the Vichy forces on the ground to decline to oppose the landings.
 
On the matter of uniforms etc for the Vichy French, have a look at this link; it identifies some units which retained the Adrian helmets and the kepis:

http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/crossfire/CEF.htm

Upon reflection, those Vichy forces could represent either side, simultaneously! Put a few with some repainted D-Day figures to represent Operation Torch and put a corresponding few with the AK sets! Perfect equilibrium within your North African diorama.
 
panda1gen said:
It wasn't all bad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bir_Hakeim

but ......http://www.state.nj.us/military/admin/highlightsarchive/10nov06highlights.html ........they did fight the allies in places.
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Yes at Bir Hakeim the Gaullists had much to cheer, but this was of course in the context of the British/Commonwealth 8th Army. As far as the Americans were concerned FDR continued to recognise the Vichy puppet regime as the government of France until the Nazis dissolved it in 1942.

The fierce resitance mentioned in relation to Oran was probably influenced to an extent by the British attack on the French fleet near Oran in 1940:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_French_Fleet_at_Mers-el-Kebir

That consolidated the bitterness of the defeated French, and allowed the Nazi propagandists a field day. (It didn't significantly change matters in terms of the general re-alignment of the French colonies, as those which wanted to declare for Vichy or for de Gaulle's self-appointed "government in exile" seemed to do so with impunity, e.g. Madagascar declared for the Vichy regime). Even then, including the Vichy French/British clashes in Syria in WWII, the French losses fighting for the Axis powers would amount to less than 5,000 of their 600,000 casualties.

However, at the end of the day there's little to cheer for in terms of the Vichy Armée d'Afrique but it did represent the largest part of the French forces in combat. Obviously the French resistance was significant in its own right with France but if you get a French war veteran's family to look closely they'll often admit that their "Free French" combatant was more often than not actually a former Vichy soldier. From 1940-1942 was a dark period in French military history, and no matter how much cheerleading takes place in the war movies, the fact remains that the Free French were not the most significant French component in the 1942-1945 campaigns.

I'd use the figures to represent either side.

Sorry, forgot to add the following link on the clash between British/Commonwealth forces and the 'neutral' Vichy Lebanon/Syria:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria-Lebanon_campaign

(Some French-on-French voilence there too, and an alternative use for the 8th Army figures too!)
 
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Capitolron said:
The preceeding message was stated as an historic fact - not a slight against french men or french women or french men who like french women - nor is the statement to be taken as a ugly american statement. All readers please realize the comments are not meant to be political in anyway - nor are they sponsored by any political party within the United States or its Allies or any other Country who wishes harm to the US. Also the United Nations has confirmed the french were active in both Armies of the Allies and Axis and these statements cannot be mistaken for political commentary and should be viewed as historic fact.

I think that disclaimer should work for me. :)
Click to expand...

I STILL STAND BY MY DISCLAIMER ! :D
 
Well ive just ordered one of each of the vichy french figures,they look stunning,then a thought crossed my mind ,seen as King&country are going to release a WW1 series,hows about reusing/repainting the camels ,arab figures,and release a Lawrence of Arabia figure.series?
I think the camel in Ak33 would suit a haughty Lawrence figure?
If not a new series ,hows about a limited edition for the collecters club,would there be enough interest to generate sales?
Watch the film again on the collecters dvd and see where im comming from!
Wishfull thinking maybe:confused:
 
steveo said:
Well ive just ordered one of each of the vichy french figures,they look stunning,then a thought crossed my mind ,seen as King&country are going to release a WW1 series,hows about reusing/repainting the camels ,arab figures,and release a Lawrence of Arabia figure.series?
I think the camel in Ak33 would suit a haughty Lawrence figure?
If not a new series ,hows about a limited edition for the collecters club,would there be enough interest to generate sales?
Watch the film again on the collecters dvd and see where im comming from!
Wishfull thinking maybe:confused:
Click to expand...

Yes, I LIKE THE WAY THIS MAN THINKS !

ANDY ? What about my MAIN MAN - LAWERENCE !

:D :D :D
 
CannonFodder1971 said:
On the matter of uniforms etc for the Vichy French, have a look at this link; it identifies some units which retained the Adrian helmets and the kepis:

http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/crossfire/CEF.htm

Upon reflection, those Vichy forces could represent either side, simultaneously! Put a few with some repainted D-Day figures to represent Operation Torch and put a corresponding few with the AK sets! Perfect equilibrium within your North African diorama.
Click to expand...

Wow CannonFodder1971,

That was quit a history lesson.

Thanks,

Carlos
 
Hi,
I am planning on using the KC Vichy French with my Hachette/KC french foreign legionaires. The current offerring of Vichy French could be used for post WWII French Algeria, prior to and during the revolt against the French.

Benjamin
 
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