What History Books do you like to read? (2 Viewers)

[Louis Badolato]

I love History books, but I have an unusual prediliction: I am most interested in hearing the first hand accounts of individuals who actually participated in making the history. Accordingly, my collection consists mostly of the published memoirs of enlisted men and lower ranking officers. Maybe I miss out on some of the strategy and grand tactics, but I prefer getting my history from the horses mouth. Among my favorite books are "Through Asia Minor on Horseback" by Frederick Burnaby; "A Zulu War Journal" by Colonel Henry Harford; "Long Range Desert Group" by W.B. Kennedy Shaw; "Company Commander" by Charles B. MacDonald; "Another River, Another Town: A Teenage Tank Gunner Comes of Age in Combat - 1945" by John P. Irwin; "Death Traps" by Belton Cooper; "Currahee!", "The Road to Arnhem", "Seven Roads to Hell" and "Beyond the Rhine" by Donald R. Burgett; and my all time favorite "Quartered Safe Out Here" by George MacDonald Fraser. I feel like I get alot more out of these accounts, often written contemporaneously with the action, then the conclusions of some "expert" (who probably never heard a shot fired in anger) about the events, written 50 or 100 years later. What are some of your favorite history books?

 

[jazzeum]

Some of my favorite books on World War II are from historians of the era, not oral history. I've enjoyed anything by Max Hasting, but particulary Overlord and its sequel Armageddon. Carlo D'Este dissection of Normandy is a must. Despite its limitations, William Shirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich is a very good book. Much more detailed and riveting is Evans more recent Coming to Power of the Third Reich.

I am currently reading several different books on North Africa. Jon Latimer's book Alamein is excellent as is Barrie Pitt's The Crucible of War volumes and Bierman's and Smith's Battle of Alamein: Turning Point of World War II. Alan Moorehead's trilogy, published by Penguin, is first rate.

I've also just started reading Churchill's History of World War II and that is fantastic. As a counterpoint to that a book by historian David Reynolds analyzing how Churchill wrote these books has just come out called In Command of History and that also looks like a great complement.

Not exactly WW 2, but Hugh Thomas' Spanish Civil War is a great book.

While I enjoy oral history, as a former would-be History professor, oral history, in my view, has its limitations as sometimes the participants can't always see the forest from the trees. For example, while others may differ, I have a hard time reading Stephen Ambrose's works. The stories of course ar fascinating but not particularly well written in my view and he doesn't maintain distance from his subjects, a prerequisite for any historian in my view.

 

[vandilay]

I have just finished re reading Berlin the downfall 1945, by Anthony Beevor
it is a fantastic book ,he also wrote a very good book on stalingrad.
Both books are well worth a read if you havent read them already.

 

[OzDigger]

Transfered from another thread:
I concentrate on WWII auto-bios especially those by German authors. However I do buy some 'Allied' bios if they are of particular interest to me such as 'Flame Thrower' by Andrew Wilson who served in the flame throwing 'Crocodiles' (modified Churchill tanks with fuel trailers for those that aren't familiar with them). Aircraft and tanks are my main interest but I have a few infantry based books such as 'Forgotten Soldier' by Guy Sager and 'In Their Shallow Graves' by Benno Zieser.

Edit: My favourite history books?
References: I guess 'Warplanes of the Luftwaffe' by William Green is my fav, and I like the H & C series of books written by mainly French authors as they have some nice illustrations with some comprehensive written info. I'm not a big fan of the Schiffer range of military books as they are just basically photos with captions and they charge heaps for them, but their 'Camouflage Uniforms of the Waffen-SS' is well produced.

Third party history
I like 'The Luftwaffe Diaries' by Cajus Bekker and 'The Other Battle' by Peter Hinchliffe and the 'After the Battle' series.

First hand history
I'm currently reading a older book called 'The Fatal Descision' being an examination of six decisive battles in WWII which is a combination of writtings by German officers involved in each of the following battles:
The Battle of Britain - General of the Air Force Werner Kreipe
Moscow - General Gunther Blumentritt
El Alamein - Lt-Col Fritz Bayerlein
Stalingrad - Col-Gen Kurt Zeitzler
France, 1944 - Lt-Col Bodo Zimmerman
The Ardennes - Gen Hasso Von Mateuffel

 

[Eazy]

I'm reading Armageddon by Max Hastings at the moment. It's a great book and paints a vivid picture of what life was really like for infantrymen and others involved in the war on all sides and all capacities. It's not just about those that were heroes but those that hated every minute of it and just stayed at the back wherever possible.

I never met my Grandad, he died before i was born, but he was in the Royal Field Artillery in France, Holland,Belgium and Germany. By coincidence his old P.T. instuctor sergeant lived in the road i grew up in. I asked him what my Grandad was like in the war. He told me in all honesty that he was a bit of a shirker.

I thought that's cool enough for me.

 

[OzDigger]

Did that PT Instructor see any action Easy?

 

[Eazy]

I've no idea. He's a good guy. He was a good friend of my Grandad after the war and was just having a bit of fun remembering old times.

To be honest i've no idea if my Grandad saw any action. He never spoke of his experiences to my Mom or Gran. All they know is that he was a batman to a senior officer.

It's possible that my Mom and Nan were subjected to more concentrated German fire than he was because they lived close by the Spitfire factory at Castle Bromwich in Birmingham (now Jaguar Cars) which was a prime target.

 

[OzDigger]

I'm lucky in that my Grandfather tape recorded his WWI experiences. And a bit of coincidence with yours as my Grandfather was a batman for an officer (a previous work colleage) during his training with the Australian 12th Light Horse in Liverpool (Sydney) - mainly to get out of the boring marches etc he said.

When they went to Gallipoli he quit the batman job and got into sniping (marksmen he called it) and patrol duties, he was actually slightly wounded on the first day - there must have been a few bullets flying around there. When they were withdrawn from Gallipoli to Egypt he was transferred to the Australian Light Horse Military Police. He certainly had some interesting experiences and I have transcibed all the stories to a booklet.

My favourite story was when they were on Gallipoli his lot were stationed near an Indian Artillery Battery for a while and the Indian troops were supplied with live sheep because of some religeos requirement or something.

Of course the ANZACs and most other Allied soldiers didn't get fresh meat on Gallipoli and existed on bully beef and biscuits. Anyway, one day one of the sheep got away from the Indian troops before they had a chance to kill it and it made for the Aussie trenches. My Grandfather and another guy saw it coming towards their trenches flat out, and during it's escape it apparently jumped a wide sunken road so it may have been a type of mountain sheep.

They grabbed it as it came over a ridge and being used to fending for themselves on the land they quickly killed it, cut it up and shared it out amongst the troops. Later on a British officer and an Indian arrived asking if anyone had seen a sheep, but had to go away disappointed.

 

[sceic2]

Oh, I have read hundreds of books and found each of them worth reading, even if I disagreed with the author or found them to be a "hard read." One book that I always keep in full view on my coffee table (along with about 200 K&C Napies), so that I can remember its contents, is Lincoln by Gore Vidal. Another of my favorite books is a series of editions The National Historical Society published about 25 years ago. It is a six-volume set of ACW pictures. It contains just about every ACW picture that was taken (at least the ones that are still in existance). I like to read about history from the beginning of mankind to the future (I am a huge science fiction fan). But Vidal's book about Lincoln' life is my favorite. Michael

 

[binder001]

There's something to be said for first-person accounts, but the GIs weren't into technology or development. To them a weapon was a tool to be used, in the fashion they were trained to use it. Where the weapons came from or how the doctrine and training evolved - they didn't care! So I like to balance my reading with the recent info on technical developments, written by people who have poured through the official records from multiple agencies or Army branches, and I also read the first-person material about how the GIs actually fought, lived, and what they cared about. Personal favorite authors are Bill Mauldin for his views of the American GI in multiple situations, Dick Hunnicutt for his years of engineering research on the development of all US armored vehicles, Steve Zaloga for his years of research in archives on many countries and interviews with veterans. He has a good writing style that makes it easy to understand how doctrine, development and usage intertwine to give a history of a vehicle. He background in defense contracting lets him take a "system" approach. I also enjoy Harry Yeide's recent books on US armor and operations in the ETO. Most of my reading is about the US military. I avoid most German stuff because 1) I don't have any sympathy for their cause (and I have a strong German background!), and 2) most of them seem to believe that THEY actually won the war (our occupation of their homeland was a byproduct of material resources only).

 

[DMNamiot]

Some really interesting books mentioned and I did enjoy the story about Gallipoli. I had a friend who did some touring in Turkey when he was stationed with me in Germany and he said the battlefield still was in decent shape and you could tour it. As for what types of history books I enjoy, well thats pretty easy Tanks and more Tanks. But my focus for the past 4 years has been WWI and the beginnings of the Tank Corps. I have many of the original books published on the subject such as, Tanks 1914 - 1918 Logbook of a Pioneer by Stern, Tanks in the Great War by Fuller, Eye Witness by Swinton, The Tank Corps by Williams - Ellis, Life in a Tank by Haigh, The Tanks 2vol by Liddell Hart. Alas there isnt time to put all of the titles here suffice to say I have a bunch.

But like Louis I too find the first hand accounts very interesting to read especially if the author wrote them quickly after the battle and hasnt let time cool his feelings on the experience. Some of the more interesting ones have been The Gods Were Neutral and Brazen Chariots by Crisp, Commanding the Red Army's Sherman Tanks by Dmitriy Loza, Alamein To Zem Zem by Douglas, War as I knew it by Gen Patton and Combat Commander by Harmon.

Of course this merely scratches the surface because I have a lot of books covering a vast period of history and I will have to add some other titles to the mix later right now it time to get the kids to school.

Dave

 

[Louis Badolato]

Wow guys! You are going to bankrupt me, as I am going to want to run out and grab a bunch of these books.

Brad, as to you comments about oral histories often not being able to see the forest for the trees, this may be true, but I think their value depends on your perspective. I have very little interest in what Generals and Grand Strategy have to say because I have no delusions that I would ever be in a position to make such broad decisions. It is the thoughts, actions and reactions of enlisted men and officers of field rank and below that interest me, because their's is the position where I would most likely find myself, and with whom I naturally sympathize. They are not privy to the secret plans of their leaders (who are rarely in harms way), they have to take an order, and find a way to execute it while trying to preserve their own or their command's lives.

Perhaps I am cynical, but when I read history, I have little respect for most of the generals (especially Allied Generals from WWII, with a few exceptions), as I constantly see them failing to get up close to the lines and failing to obtain a realistic idea of what they are asking their troops to accomplish. From Montgomery's disasterous advance during operation Goodwood (ignoring his revisionist claims that he never intended to break out, merely to draw German fire), through his plans for Operation Market Garden (which allegedly ignored intel that there were German armored forces in the area rendering the whole already shaky plan [advancing down a raised one lane road for 60 miles!] a recipe for disaster), to the bloodbath in the that forest in Germany (whose name escapes me this morning) where the Bloody Bucket division was sacrificed for nothing, as the forest was tactically worthless without holding the dams above it, I constantly see our young men's lives squandered by fools who play with these lives with less care than we play with toy soldiers. Sorry guys for venting about our leaders, but I feel like the competent American, French and British generals in the 20th century can be counted on the fingers of my hands.

 

[binder001]

Louis, while probably not quite as vehement against the generals as you sound, I agree with many of your assessments. The Huertgen Forest campaign was such an enormous waste of fine young men that nowadays there would be criminal hearings for the generals in charge. People don't often realize that one of the reasons that the Eigth Airforce losses were so large in 1943 was not just the technical lack of an escort fighter, but the disinterest in an escort fighter from AAF brass. The remained committed to their "theories" about strategic bombing while airmen wee dying by the hundreds. Same way for the intense ego war between Bradley and Monty (usually masked by the more legendary Patton vs. Montgomery stories). The study of war really is the study of the people involved - troops and leaders.

 

[sceic2]

I really don’t know how to express this so that another human can understand my thought pattern (yeah I am that weird), but I am going to attempt anyway. And it does tie into the basis of this thread; it just takes me a lot of internally generated “hot air” to explain my position.

I do not believe that any one war has ever been completed. Completed in the sense that issues that were fought over were successfully concluded to the satisfaction of all the parties involved. I believe that we humans have been in a continuous state of war since our beginning. We call them wars, but I like to think of them as a named series of major confrontations that never quite resolve the underlying issues and create new issues for future conflict. This is not an original theory. Many philosophers have proposed this as the reason for man’s existence. The classic example of this theory is that WWII was a result of unfinished business from WWI. Another is that the ACW was the final battle of the American Revolution. It finally resolved the issue of the definition of freedom. But then, the ACW caused further conflicts into the future - Jim Crow, etc.

Other than Vidal, one of my favorite authors is John Keegan, a British author who lectures at Sandhurst. His books - The First World War, Fields of Battle, The Battle for History and A History of Warfare - have this interrelationship of wars as the basis for his theory of warfare being a continuation of battle from one “war” to the next. I especially like his book - The First World War. It goes in-depth into the failures of both the Allied and the German High Commands to adjust their fighting styles and their absolute disregard for human life. He further explains the political relationships of unresolved conflict both pre and post war. The History Channel has been showing repeats of the series “The First World War.” This is also a great series in explaining the total dynamics involved in that period of history.

I am what some may call a “systems guy.” I believe in systematic relationships between events, people, and every other thing in the world. This systematic thought has given my personality the ability to understand, at my level, the reasons for events. I find that if I understand the background, underlying issues, I can more fully understand history. Books are a great way of exposing myself to these aspects of my understanding. However, you must be aware that not all books are as they seem.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Sciec2,

I may not fully understand the theory you are propounding, but I certainly see who unfinished business and unresolved issues from one war can contribute to the start of another. The obvious example of the penalties of the Versailles Treaty leading to the rise of Hitler and the second World War is just one of many such examples that spring to my mind, from the humiliating defeat suffered by France in the Franco-Prussian war being one of the causes of the First World War, through the aftermath of WWII bringing about the cold war, there certainly seems to be a connection. Human nature seems to lean more towards revenge for past slights then forgive and forget.

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Louis,

Here are some other books I have you might be interested in:

Fighting the Fuzzy Wuzzy by De Cossen first hand account of the Sudan Campaign

Prisoners of the Madi by Farwell

Fire and Sword in the Sudan by R. Slatin Pasha

Diary of a Napoleonic Foot Soldier by Jakob Walter

Aside from the obvious theme the first three are all very interesting stories looking at the same period of events from the fall of Khartoum thru the campaign to retake control and depose the Madi. As for Walters book I liked it but it was a little disjointed but still a good one to look at.

I would also recommend Ken Touts books on Tank warfare in WWII.

Have fun at the used book shops.

Dave

 

[Louis Badolato]

Dave,

I own and have read Prisoners of the Madhi by Byron Farwell as well as Slatin Pasha's book, but I didn't know about the book "Fighting the Fuzzy Wuzzies" and will have to get a copy.

 

[fishead19690]

Like louis I also love the books and stories from the lower ranks and foot soldiers, first hand accounts of what the wars and battles and life on campaign was really like. I like to read military heritage magazine becuase it has alot of these kind of stories of what it was like in battle from a foot soldiers point of veiw. I like the captain mercer stories from waterloo also great first hand stuff. I also have dairy of a napoleonic foot soldier its a great book on what a campaign was like in napoleonic times. And i,ve been reading another great book called Napoleon on the art of war by jay luvaas wich is a collection of dispatchs and orders and other short pieces written by napoleon all compiled together to create a kind of how to on war, kind of like carl von clausewitz principles of war(another good book).With this book you get to see just how munch thought and planing napoleon put into everything before and during a war or battle. You get a really good lesson in building and maintaining your lines of comunication. How many men will be posted at which depot along the way. How many officers will stay behind to maintain roads. Things like letting straglers rest at depots and dropping of wounded and prepairing fortifications and earthworks at depots and having fresh horses and food for the men at certain depots along the way.Making sure bridges are O.K. Its very interesting and a good look into prepairing for a campaign. And of course I already told you guys about how good the waterloo companion by mark adkin is already. GREAT BOOK!!!!

 

[DMNamiot]

Dave,

I own and have read Prisoners of the Madhi by Byron Farwell as well as Slatin Pasha's book, but I didn't know about the book "Fighting the Fuzzy Wuzzies" and will have to get a copy.

Hi louis,

In my haste to write the information of the books down I mis spelled De Cossen it is actually De Cosson here is the ISBN for the book:

1-85367-066-9

1990 by Greenhill Books with Lionel Leventhal LTD London

Hope this is helpful for your search.

Dave

 

[Louis Badolato]

Thanks again Dave, I am going to track down that book. I also neglected to mention a truly interesting and entertaining first hand account of the Siege of Chitral, "Chitral The Story of a Minor Siege" by Sir George Robertson. His writing style, and sense of humor really bring the story to life. Surgeon Major Robertson really captures both the romance and brutality of campaigning on the Northwest Frontier. Jim Hillestad loaned me his copy (which I didn't get back to him for more than six months, to his chagrin - he nearly killed me at the Chicago show) and it was such a great read that I ran out and bought my own.