What is Really Important? (1 Viewer)

[Mr Scott]

Whilst there is always numerous debate about the accuracy of items, ie the rivot counters ' the plane looks great however in November 1940 there was no colour red as all the earthworms had died due to the un-seasonally cold weather', I always enjoy the comments in threads that relate the item to their actual contribution to the war effort.

A good example is the recent 'dispatch rider thread' where a line or two from contributors connect the figure to their actual critical contribution.

I feel it is more important to connect the item to 'the story' they represent in history rather than concentrating on whether a scale model 1:30 is perfectly replicated.

My grandfather died in WWII in Bomber Command in a Stirling; hence I collect RAF. I cannot replicate or even imagine the horrors he endured however I can have a small diaroma that when friends come over, or my son asked, I can proudly retell the story of my grandfather and the contribution he made. I doubt whether anyone cares if the wheels of the fuel trunk where only produced from '1949 onwards' (as an example, not a matter of fact).

Thanks Scott

 

[Jack]

Whilst there is always numerous debate about the accuracy of items, ie the rivot counters ' the plane looks great however in November 1940 there was no colour red as all the earthworms had died due to the un-seasonally cold weather', I always enjoy the comments in threads that relate the item to their actual contribution to the war effort.

A good example is the recent 'dispatch rider thread' where a line or two from contributors connect the figure to their actual critical contribution.

I feel it is more important to connect the item to 'the story' they represent in history rather than concentrating on whether a scale model 1:30 is perfectly replicated.

My grandfather died in WWII in Bomber Command in a Stirling; hence I collect RAF. I cannot replicate or even imagine the horrors he endured however I can have a small diaroma that when friends come over, or my son asked, I can proudly retell the story of my grandfather and the contribution he made. I doubt whether anyone cares if the wheels of the fuel trunk where only produced from '1949 onwards' (as an example, not a matter of fact).

Thanks Scott

Ditto!

 

[vividgraphx]

I care. I am a huge WW2 history buff and lost relatives that I never got a chance to know in that war also. I work very hard on my dioramas. My diorama takes up most of my basement and I have a big basement. I cover all theaters of the war and I want every piece to be historically accurate. Its important to me when I bring people in to see it that I can also explain what they are looking at and if they later point out something to me that they discovered was inaccurate it would make it look that I don't know what I'm talking about. This is the reason I passed up on the blue fuel browser,ramjager,and many other pieces. But that's just me. I'm all for collectors just having fun and really enjoyed one dio I saw with Germans fighting a UFO. They are fun and great to look at but the historian in me cant do it. Keith

 

[waynepoo]

It very simple really....both points of view are equally valid, just do what you enjoy....
Wayne.

 

[uksubs]

Why are all these threads in king & country section and not just toy soldier thread for a start ? For me I have in the past collected from most of the toy company's and will make my reply on all of them not just kc , when a toy soldier manufacturer try to sell a item as say Wittmann tank Normandy SS group al over there boxes and charge top $ then I expect it to be right for the money !if 21'st century toys can get it right on £20.00 item why can't these manufacturer when there charging a lot more ? It not hard and know for a fact they would sell more stuff if they were correct .this is just my opinion

 

[MapleLeaf]

I bought the WW1 german armored car because i liked it
and it was different
I collect RAF, i did not buy the Bowser because it's the wrong color
blue and yellow did not exsist then , came after WW2
So half of one and half of the other
RAF is a serious collection to me , has to be right

 

[uksubs]

It very simple really....both points of view are equally valid, just do what you enjoy....
Wayne.

Think your right

 

[glossman]

The title of this thread poses a very relevant question: "What is Really Important?" I think it is important to maintain a balanced perspective with regard to our hobby. Quite obviously, the answer to the question will be varied from different collectors.

My reading of military history forms the basis of what I collect. I try not to be a "rivet counter" and will pass all, but the most glaring of discrepancies in set/figure accuracy. I do not expect any manufacturer to be perfect in their products, just as I do not have a huge amount of disposable income that allows me buy all that I like.

Let's not turn this thread into another battlefield.....there has been too much of it of late. We need to be more sensitive and respectful of our fellow collectors, taking into account differences in nationality, descent, ethnicity and more. That is my understanding of civility on the forum.

Best Wishes to ALL,
Raymond

 

[Rob]

Very interesting thread Scott. Everybody has their own reasons for collecting and everyone is entitled to their opinion, they are also entitled to air it without being shouted down because of it. This hobby is supposed to be enjoyable after all. For me it's all about balance , I would not buy a Pink Tiger I but to be honest if a figure is holding the the wrong type of cigarette I'm not going to get upset over it. I've always said people have the choice to say ' that's incorrect I'm not buying it ' , but there is also a point that once they've said it there is no need to continue to berate people who will buy and try and spoil their enjoyment of it . Nobody is forced to buy anything after all, I say buy what you like, don't buy what you don't like and respect the views of others.

I also totally agree with you re the enjoyment of the representation of people and services such as the Dispatch riders. This is where K&C are well ahead in my view . Who else gives us shot down aircraft, Police, UXB sets, ambulances etc . WW2 was not just about the fighting man and their machines, the ordinary people on the Home Front played a massive role and K&C are one of the few producers to acknowledge this.

Rob

 

[Simpson & his donkey.]

Very interesting thread Scott. Everybody has their own reasons for collecting and everyone is entitled to their opinion, they are also entitled to air it without being shouted down because of it. This hobby is supposed to be enjoyable after all. For me it's all about balance , I would not buy a Pink Tiger I but to be honest if a figure is holding the the wrong type of cigarette I'm not going to get upset over it. I've always said people have the choice to say ' that's incorrect I'm not buying it ' , but there is also a point that once they've said it there is no need to continue to berate people who will buy and try and spoil their enjoyment of it . Nobody is forced to buy anything after all, I say buy what you like, don't buy what you don't like and respect the views of others.

I also totally agree with you re the enjoyment of the representation of people and services such as the Dispatch riders. This is where K&C are well ahead in my view . Who else gives us shot down aircraft, Police, UXB sets, ambulances etc . WW2 was not just about the fighting man and their machines, the ordinary people on the Home Front played a massive role and K&C are one of the few producers to acknowledge this.

Rob

I have never been a rivet counter. I buy what i think looks good . If companies make something's that aren't quite right and it's cool I will buy it.I am with Rob here I would never buy a Pink Tiger 1. Simmo.

 

[vividgraphx]

I've heard about a pink tiger on the forum before,does K&C or another manufacturer plan on making 1 ?

 

[Mitch]

the point about the rivet counters which, IMO is a rather negative and rude comment in its own right is we are not collecting in a hobby that produces stuff like FOV and other small companies at cheap as chips prices. Its constantly printed and stated in person that we are collecting and replicating history. If thats the case and, whether prices are too high or not then, the sets that are released should be accurate and, exact in detail.

We are not wanting things that were not produced like the paper panzers that are being made in the plastic hobby these items were produced fought and, have been minutely inspected during and since the end of the second world war.

To me if a tiger is X in length and height its slack not to replicate that or, try and invent another wheel and make it fit what you want it to be. Its harder IMO to get it wrong than do it right in the first place. I also don't like comments I have heard from manufactures where they don't care if something is not right as only a handful will notice or, we are the manufacturer and we know better than the customers!!!!

I agree with Neil that this is a thread for the general toy soldier section not, the K&C one but, people should accept that some want different things and expect different things. I mentioned that half if not more of these issues are the fault of the manufacturers. if you state 1/30th on the box then thats exactly what it should be, replicating history should mean just that and, bang on exact should mean just that.

In the end its down to each collector to decide how happy they are with each set but, on such a forum like this it should be expected that issues will be raised. many people who do not get to shops and shows depend on things like this as they are paying what they consider a lot of money and want to know its right or, wont either fall apart or come with all the paint in a small bag instead of on the AFV.

Mind, in relation to the tiger we could have it in desert pink they were olive green ones!!!
Mitch

 

[AIDMAN]

For my two Cents worth i would say for myself i always strive for a high level of historical accuracy...BUT..!! If i really wished badly to create a diorama/scene that SLIGHTLY bends the truth i would do so...For example i wish in the future to re-create a Union attack on the Confederate stronghold of Petersburg. using a combination of Union infantry and the 146th New York Zouaves. Now i know that this regiment were present at the siege but were not..deployed ie. not one mention of them in the actual Battle documentation and not one single casualty listed, while Union casualties in this sector were very high...But as i said i really want to make this dio so...IT"S MY CHOICE..!! And thats how it should be...Each one of us has different levels of skill, different levels of demand for historical accuracy. and should not have to run the gauntlet of sarcasm and stones from dissaproving fellow forum members...Well chosen words and helpfull hints OK..!!. but lets keep it respectfull and polite!!!!!!!.....NO i am not saying put a pink Jagdtiger in a Normandy Dio...(was"nt it a Pink Panther????)...But lets cut each other a bit of slack and just enjoy the great Hobby of Toy Soldiers....As i said just my opinion.


Steve


Remember and Respect

 

[Rob]

For my two Cents worth i would say for myself i always strive for a high level of historical accuracy...BUT..!! If i really wished badly to create a diorama/scene that SLIGHTLY bends the truth i would do so...For example i wish in the future to re-create a Union attack on the Confederate stronghold of Petersburg. using a combination of Union infantry and the 146th New York Zouaves. Now i know that this regiment were present at the siege but were not..deployed ie. not one mention of them in the actual Battle documentation and not one single casualty listed, while Union casualties in this sector were very high...But as i said i really want to make this dio so...IT"S MY CHOICE..!! And thats how it should be...Each one of us has different levels of skill, different levels of demand for historical accuracy. and should not have to run the gauntlet of sarcasm and stones from dissaproving fellow forum members...Well chosen words and helpfull hints OK..!!. but lets keep it respectfull and polite!!!!!!!.....NO i am not saying put a pink Jagdtiger in a Normandy Dio...(was"nt it a Pink Panther????)...But lets cut each other a bit of slack and just enjoy the great Hobby of Toy Soldiers....As i said just my opinion.


Steve


Remember and Respect

Steve, yes mate it was a Pink Panther, in fact a rinky dink Panther, Panther Pink from head to toe if I remember my childhood cartoons:wink2:

Good post my friend, the sarcasm we can do without. {bravo}}

Cheers

Rob

PS Am off on a recce mission to the new London show venue in a couple of weeks to check out the local watering holes for the December meeting, you know a bit like how Wellington decided on the ground at Waterloo about a year before the Battle:wink2:

 

[Mitch]

Steve...

Thats dio making and scene building your talking about. I don't really mind if a collector puts a jagdtiger or similar in say a dio based in italy thats their choice and, what makes the individual happy. Many times on here people have contacted me to ask if they can put this in a dio in case its wrong if they post a picture and people comment. I always say it may not be accurate historically but, if its what you want to do. Thats not what I was getting at its, for me, the stuff thats released not where the collectors imagination deploys it thats the issue.

Thats taking it too far IMO when a collector puts effort into a scene to be told that was not present or should not be this or that. I joined after someone was berated for saying he wanted to put Panzer I and Panzer II's in a russian dio and fighting in 1943 even though they were present in many battles right through that year. He did not do the dio because of the grilling he took. Thats different to the sets being released from a manufacturer either wrong in accuracy or, make believe.
Mitch

 

[arnhem44mad]

Excellent thread mate!

Personally when I look at the extreme price increases which are now almost monthly I think that for the money the models should be 100% accurate!!! Also sometimes the correct model or mould of a figure may be slightly cheaper, or even save some time, such as painting a two on a helmet instead of a net, making a tank have a different hull or turret. May seem like nothing in this but when it all adds up this could reduce cost to the collector.

Scott

 

[AIDMAN]

Steve...

Thats not what I was getting at its, for me, the stuff thats released not where the collectors imagination deploys it thats the issue.

Thats different to the sets being released from a manufacturer either wrong in accuracy or, make believe.
Mitch

Mitch...Have to agree with you on this point mate. There have been colossal mistakes made in relaeses (and i am not naming names)) which with a little more time spent in research would have avoided....When one considers what Figures/Vehicles cost nowadays and the fact that the most collectors are getting more and more critical over historical accuracy then i believe that ALL manufactures should (and i believe most do) go that extra mile for thier customers..!!....I am not one who goes as far as a rivet count....all respect for those who do. But if i have to pay 200 Euros+- for an item then it had better be as good as 100% or i will walk on by...!!.

Steve

 

[AIDMAN]

Steve, yes mate it was a Pink Panther, in fact a rinky dink Panther, Panther Pink from head to toe if I remember my childhood cartoons:wink2:

Good post my friend, the sarcasm we can do without. {bravo}}

Cheers

Rob

PS Am off on a recce mission to the new London show venue in a couple of weeks to check out the local watering holes for the December meeting, you know a bit like how Wellington decided on the ground at Waterloo about a year before the Battle:wink2:

Rob Thanks for your comments mate....Good to know we have a reliable Recon element out there..!! good planning can win or lose the day.
Take care mate..Never forget it"s a jungle out there and pick a location with the prettiest barmaids...But dont get sidetracked and lose sight of the object of the mission!!!!!

Steve

 

[Rob]

Rob Thanks for your comments mate....Good to know we have a reliable Recon element out there..!! good planning can win or lose the day.
Take care mate..Never forget it"s a jungle out there and pick a location with the prettiest barmaids...But dont get sidetracked and lose sight of the object of the mission!!!!!

Steve

Cheers Steve, any barmaid has to be an improvement on last weeks effort:wink2:

Rob

 

[Bayern]

I've heard about a pink tiger on the forum before,does K&C or another manufacturer plan on making 1 ?

...I don't know but I saw pink elephants following last nights beach party^&confuse...oh my head......I am too old for this.....hair of the dog in hand....

Perhaps we need a pink tiger to buy for Momma..that way she will let us keep buying soldiers!! Do not laugh..it worked for Browning Arms, as soon as they released the pink lines women went over for hunting like never before.

...for whatever it is worth. I agree this thread should be in the chat lounge or somewhere other then a manufactures thread, no offense.

I am somewhere on a high percentage on the accuracy. It is very important to me. I love the items to completely period so to speak in the case of would have had. However I have many pieces that are not totally historically accurate I think you say. To me it depends on the degree or item that is not. If not too bad I still buy the item.

...so, I like them accurate and I also like the write up by the knowledgeable historians on here that teach an old man a few things. I do not perceive it as a downgrading of the maker. I see it that there are some smart lads about!

Ludwig