What were the first toy soldiers ? (1 Viewer)

[maloyalo]

I have seen pictures or read about some possibilities, that include:

Egyptian Soldiers in formation, mostly wood, fully equipped about 1 foot high, in a pyramid tomb. There are archers spearmen, and maybe other tropp types.

Terra Cotta figures of soldiers, sometimes mounted on horses, from italy and greece c 400-500 BC maybe. Unknown purposes.

A army of silver soldiers with some sort of articulation or moving in formation mechanism made for a French Prince I believe around 1600 ? It might have been old Louis 14th, but I really am not sure. Was later melted down for the silver in one political upheaval or another.

And the Biggest collection of them all (so far) That lifesized Terra Cotta Chinese army, with chariots and horses, all buried in formation, at an Emperor's Tomb. I do not remember the date, but it was old.

I am curious to see how far the hobby reaches back and what its earlier stages were (if there were any)

 

[OzDigger]

They were made shortly after the first battle

 

[sceic2]

I have seen pictures or read about some possibilities, that include:

Egyptian Soldiers in formation, mostly wood, fully equipped about 1 foot high, in a pyramid tomb. There are archers spearmen, and maybe other tropp types.

Terra Cotta figures of soldiers, sometimes mounted on horses, from italy and greece c 400-500 BC maybe. Unknown purposes.

A army of silver soldiers with some sort of articulation or moving in formation mechanism made for a French Prince I believe around 1600 ? It might have been old Louis 14th, but I really am not sure. Was later melted down for the silver in one political upheaval or another.

And the Biggest collection of them all (so far) That lifesized Terra Cotta Chinese army, with chariots and horses, all buried in formation, at an Emperor's Tomb. I do not remember the date, but it was old.

I am curious to see how far the hobby reaches back and what its earlier stages were (if there were any)

From what I have read and understand, most ancient figures found in tombs, like soldiers, were meant to be the followers of the dead person in the tomb. Egyptians loved to put images of everything that a person might need in the after life. Some societies even buried the real thing, people and all, with their royality. So to call them toy soldiers I don't believe is acurate.

I would think that there were toy soldiers, but they more than likely did not survive from long ago. The more recent middle ages may have more to do with toy soldiers than images of soldiers.

 

[redhugh]

I think the terracota warriors are the most impressive 'toy soldier' collection ever. Visted Xian and was blown away by the numbers of soliders they even had a seperate commanders pit where the generals were gathered, over 1000 are on display and in total there are about 8000 . Scale 1:1


The Terracotta Army dates from 210-209 BC

 

[thebritfarmer]

Found this on the net

http://ukirishhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/vizagapatam_toy_soldiers

 

[Currahee Chris]

From what I have read and understand, most ancient figures found in tombs, like soldiers, were meant to be the followers of the dead person in the tomb. Egyptians loved to put images of everything that a person might need in the after life. Some societies even buried the real thing, people and all, with their royality. So to call them toy soldiers I don't believe is acurate.

I would think that there were toy soldiers, but they more than likely did not survive from long ago. The more recent middle ages may have more to do with toy soldiers than images of soldiers.

Oh I don't know Michael- I wouldn't call what we collect right now toy soldiers either per se- it ain't like kids are out there hustling to shovel snow or mow lawns to buy the next KC Tunisian Tiger ) Besides, I think I have read some threads here were guys have half heartedly joked about burying their toy soldiers with them when we go to meet St. Peter- heck, I think I even mentioned that myself.

No, I gotta believe that toy soldiers are in that elite class of ancient pastimes- somewhere tucked between prostitution and espionage

 

[Saber]

By the winners or losers

 

[maloyalo]

I have seen myself , and also seen photos of terra cotta figures on horseback. The figure is not fixed but can be removed from horse, Some elements of the figures might be helmets, or hats. I believe they are from italian and greek areas, and do not match standand deity representations. The one I saw was about 4 inch high rider on 5 inch hourse. The sculpting is of no real quality, just basic shapes. I would say these are from 300BC 300 AD ? Fairly moldable cheap material that can be hardened, leads me to think these may be the first toy soldiers, that wealthier families would have made.

Would be interesting to find some period mention of them

So 90mm-ish might be one of the Proto-Scales. It is similiar to the main scale of Action figures, Oh boy, didn't want that to get around. They already got big heads. So... further examination now indicates these probably were home deity shrines. 6 inch is therefore the idol scale.

 

[Spitfrnd]

....
I am curious to see how far the hobby reaches back and what its earlier stages were (if there were any)

I happened to come across some information on this interesting question in some recent reading The Spartans by Paul Cartledge. It seems the Spartans were among the earlier collectors (+/- 600 BC) and commissioned their helot artisans to do collections of miniature soldiers of their time in bronze or more precious materials. The Spartans receive little public recognition for any thing but their military prowess but they did in fact have a high appreciation for the arts of the time and made many contributions. Cartledge's book is a very well done examination of the history of this fascinating culture and full of interesting insights, including the relatively unappreciated liberated status of Spartan women. Cartledge is one of the foremost authorites on Spara and this book is linked to the PBS series on the Spartans.

 

[theBaron]

I think the Egyptian figures are considered to be the oldest figures to have been. I think they're referred to as "Prince Emsah's Guard". There were two detachments, one of Egyptian infantry, and one of Nubian infantry.

Those, and the Chinese figures are really more votive figures than toys, made for ceremonial/funeral purposes.

If we talk about toys, I think the Greeks and ancient Italian people have some of the earliest, as other posters have noted. Terra cotta figures have been found, of both military and civilian subjects, that look much more like they were playthings, rather than ceremonial or display pieces. I think John Garratt has illustrations of them in some of his books.

Of course, if we go by the criterion of whether or not the figures were played with, most of our own collections would be votive figures. In fact, I think I'll have mine buried with me

Prost!
Brad

 

[Saber]

Well if there was ever a culture who made/collected toy soldiers the Spartans should be the ones.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Well if there was ever a culture who made/collected toy soldiers the Spartans should be the ones.

True enough. I don't think many were surprised that they had toy "soldiers", rather that they had any "toys" at all.
Actually their society had many positive features that in several ways, beyond their fighting ability, were the most advanced in ancient Greece.

 

[Saber]

I think the Spartans tend to get "lost" in history, at least outside of military history. There seems to be a bias towards Athens and its cultural contributions. Donald Kagans book on the war between Athens and Sparta is one of the more balanced accounts of the two competing cities that I've come across. Athens is portrayed in a more realistic light and Sparta as more than a bunch of hyped up warriors. I often wonder if Spartas other contributions are overlooked because the city itself left few physical traces, at least none on the scale of the Parthenon or some of the other buildings that still fascinate people today.