Why are plastic collectors treated as second class? (3 Viewers)

[PJDeluhery]

I recently posted this in the 'How To' section on Plastics:
At the last PLASTIC WARRIOR show in London I asked one of the PW editors about Britains plastics. He told me he went to the British Toy and Hobby Trade Show at the Excel Centre where WBritains had a stand.
He mentioned about the plastic ranges and the sales rep said to him that 'That just the cheap stuff for the kids'.
I feel that this sums up the companies attitude in general

The point that I was trying to make is that the current owners of Britains have bought into the nonsense that the 'Blazers and slacks' brigade of metal collectors spout.
The sales rep seemed to feel contempt for the plastic range. The usual attitude of plastics are for kids - adult collectors go for metal .
I think this is in part a reaction against people outside the hobby who look at it as playing with toy soldiers. If you have figures that are unsuitable (in fact dangerous) for a child to play with then you cannot be a big kid but a mature collector.
Marx. Britains, Crescent were cheap toy for kids but the people who set up these companies actually LIKED toys, or like Roy Selwyn Smith, Ally Gee and Norman Tooth liked figures and saw plastic as an exciting new material with unlimited possibilities....
The new Britains company sees Britains 40 year plastic production as a strange abberation until they got back to metal (the 'real' thing)
You really don't get that feeling in the toy trade any more I think.
Final point in the U.K up to the mid 80s you could get toy soldiers everywhere, not just toy shops but news agents, chemists, etc.
Now you don't see Britains plastics anywhere. Toyway has now gone out of business.
If kids can't find them they wont play with them and in 20 years time what adult collectors there will be shall probably be hunting down Papo and Schielch rather than Britains and Airfix.
'Said the General of the Army " I think war is barmy"
So he threw away his gun
Now he's having much more fun
Spike Milligan

Well OF COURSE a Britains' salesman will say that! He wants to see you his metal stuff.

I think your're over-generalizing from a few off-handed remarks. He's simply not plugged into the real workd. No doubt there are some of the "blazers and slacks brigade" who hold this opinion, but they don't run things; and those guys (and their attitudes) are getting pretty few and far between themselves. Plastics are a serious and respected collectors item.

 

[THE SHOOTIST]

I'd love to get the metal, but the money just isn't around for them, I have to shamelessly waste it on frivolus things like food and the mortgage, so I do plastics. I net the results that I'm looking for:

1) A reasonably low-cost hobby which I share with Sarah and Forest, my "terror-twins" during the winter months.

2) Good looking dioramas which we research and build together.

3) That sense of "family" we all get when we do this together.


Those two, every time it rains come running and shout, most times in harmony, "Dad can we pleeeeeeeeease paint soldiers today?"

Yup, it's great to share this hobby with my kids. They look longingly at at the metals too, and I promise 'some day', but I've sacked away enough coffee money this year so that Sarah will get a $100.00+ dollar mounted knight from Santa this year, so she'll be suprised.

 

[Aleš]

All Right SANTA!!!!!
Too bad Santa forgot me long time ago

 

[theBaron]

Ah, that clarifies things a bit. So the title of this thread probably shouldn't be, "Why are plastic collectors treated as second class?" which seems to have been disproven by the posts, but "Why did that Britains rep sneer at the mention of plastic figures?"

I imagine Britains would love to hear that one of their sales reps was talking down any of the products in the catalog. Not very professional.

Prost!
Brad

 

[noli-poli]

I am a plastic modeler at first but, between family and work, just did not have the time to assemble and weather models anymore. I have a stack of Tamiya and Itaeleri boxes waiting for me to be assembled. Them came King & Country and the rest. It basically did the work for me (came with a higher price though...but it balances out with the time I spent with the family).
Just sold all my unassembled plastic kits to a local hobby shop at 75% of the original prices.

N-P

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

I have as much respect for a well-sculpted, highly detailed painted plastic piece as I do for a metal piece. I have a "Pickett's Charge" diorama with about 2 thousand figures and about 60% of the figures represented are painted plastic from several plastic manufacturers. I found that many plastic figures mix well with metal figures in dioramas. The key is to make sure the plastic figures are painted to a high standard and that the scale somewhat, matches with the metal figures. It's ok to have the plastic fgures slightly smaller because it actually looks more realistic when the whole thing is seen together. Some of my favourite figures in the diorama are actually the painted plastic ones! One figure in particular from TSSD comes to mind. Also, plastic figures are easier to convert to add several more interesting poses to your diorama.

I also, collect old Britians ACW and AWI swoppets, eyes right and heralds. I have a huge collection of the ACW in particular and one day hope to create a "Burnside Bridge" diorama with just these figures because they are not compatible with anything else on the market, but make a decent looking diorama in its own right!

I don't think you will win over a majority of metal collectors, but some may appreciate plastic figures more if they were closer to the metal figure scale that they collect and the figures are painted to a very high standard...

 

[timpoisverylicky]

Ah, that clarifies things a bit. So the title of this thread probably shouldn't be, "Why are plastic collectors treated as second class?" which seems to have been disproven by the posts, but "Why did that Britains rep sneer at the mention of plastic figures?"

I imagine Britains would love to hear that one of their sales reps was talking down any of the products in the catalog. Not very professional.

Prost!
Brad

Well that's just one example of the entrenched attitude. I could give others...
I am extremeley pleased with the postive feedback this thread has received.
Britains is really now the only company that could get new ranges of 54mm painted plastics into toy and hobby shops - Conte's efforts were a non starter
and Forces of Valor canceled their ranges when Toys 'R' Us and Wal Mart decided against stocking them as the packaging took up too much space.
Another question should be 'Has the vast numbers of painted metal ranges made Collectors lazy and caused a decline in modeling?'

 

[thebritfarmer]

Well this is a little odd really as Britains hasn't had a huge focus on plastic toy soldiers for years!!! The main focus was the farm series. Were you there when this was said? or is it just hearsay? I do have to agree they are cheap play things for kids. IMO you are reading to much into it, when was the last time WB made a plastic figure? I think it was the early 1990's (the pose-able knights range) You can't compare the new Britains with the old, they are no longer the same.

 

[kilted vampire]

Some of us paint plastic figures. I like metal better because it flexes less. But I do paint plastic because it costs less. No problem with anyone who collects either, unless of course they want to tell me why I should collect what they do.
Then they are poopyheads.

 

[eborris]

I don't think we plastic collectors are treated as second class, it's just too different arenas. Metal has been around a lot longer then plastic and many plastic collectors focus on the things they had as a kid, mainly Marx plastic playsets. Younger collectors wouldn't have had that same experience of getting Marx playsets for Xmas and birthdays. If you checked the average age of a plastic collector versus that of a metal collector, I think you would find that the plastic collector average age is in their 50's, possibly late 50's at that and the metal collectors probably 5 to 10 years younger on the average.

 

[Ragnar]

Its all good to me Plastics/metal Kits/and pre painted Metals i rank them all the same as long as they do the job.
I don't mind buying a $7 set of Timpo Highlanders and then mixing them with Metals as in this pic.
Onething i have notied with some Metals is that the detail is painted on {with the use of blacklineing }.
infact there are plastics out there that are better sculpted then there Metal cousins.
But like i said they all good,

p.s that Britains salesmen just needs a good slap.

 

[Deitz]

No second class feeling here, I like my Timpo as much as my LL, Britains, K&C, Figarti and CS.

 

[timpoisverylicky]

Well this is a little odd really as Britains hasn't had a huge focus on plastic toy soldiers for years!!! The main focus was the farm series. Were you there when this was said? or is it just hearsay? I do have to agree they are cheap play things for kids. IMO you are reading to much into it, when was the last time WB made a plastic figure? I think it was the early 1990's (the pose-able knights range) You can't compare the new Britains with the old, they are no longer the same.

When the 'new' WBritains came into existance one of the statements made was that they were commited to new plastic ranges - redesigning the bases, etc.
They have been churning out the metal ranges, all the plastic collectors got were a few walls and different ACW flags.
The more detailed matt painting was introduced by TOYWAY before Ertl sold Britains to Racing Champions. Peter Evans of PLASTIC WARRIOR originally painted the samples to be copied in China.
There was a lot of exciment and positive feeling from the plastics section when the 'new' WBritains' ex Deetail ranges first appeared but since then...zilch and any positive support has now faded away.

 

[wds0855]

I don't think we plastic collectors are treated as second class, it's just too different arenas. Metal has been around a lot longer then plastic and many plastic collectors focus on the things they had as a kid, mainly Marx plastic playsets. Younger collectors wouldn't have had that same experience of getting Marx playsets for Xmas and birthdays. If you checked the average age of a plastic collector versus that of a metal collector, I think you would find that the plastic collector average age is in their 50's, possibly late 50's at that and the metal collectors probably 5 to 10 years younger on the average.

Those are very good points. Kids today are not used to getting plastic soldiers and such for birthdays and Christmas like "we" were. Now they get virtual soldiers - i.e. "Call of Duty". (Which I play myself and really enjoy).

 

[The Lt.]

Its all good to me Plastics/metal Kits/and pre painted Metals i rank them all the same as long as they do the job.
I don't mind buying a $7 set of Timpo Highlanders and then mixing them with Metals as in this pic.
Onething i have notied with some Metals is that the detail is painted on {with the use of blacklineing }.
infact there are plastics out there that are better sculpted then there Metal cousins.
But like i said they all good,

p.s that Britains salesmen just needs a good slap.

Nice way of getting your point across Rob as alway a picture is worth a thousand words and a ditto when it comes to the Britain salesman from across the pond.

 

[Ragnar]

Many thanks Lt......Like many other's i don't se Britains Detail figs as "just kids stuff".
I still buy them now and then i might add more paint or give them a total re-paint.
and im more then happy to mix them with the adult stuff

 

[bromhead]

Its all good to me Plastics/metal Kits/and pre painted Metals i rank them all the same as long as they do the job.
I don't mind buying a $7 set of Timpo Highlanders and then mixing them with Metals as in this pic.
Onething i have notied with some Metals is that the detail is painted on {with the use of blacklineing }.
infact there are plastics out there that are better sculpted then there Metal cousins.
But like i said they all good,

p.s that Britains salesmen just needs a good slap.

Agreed,the quality ,sculpting of the "new" plastic is first rate,enjoyable painting,,I have gotten to the point of almost only painting metal castings in matt with the exception of restoring old britains and Dimestores.

 

[PanzerIII]

When the 'new' WBritains came into existance one of the statements made was that they were commited to new plastic ranges - redesigning the bases, etc.
They have been churning out the metal ranges, all the plastic collectors got were a few walls and different ACW flags.
The more detailed matt painting was introduced by TOYWAY before Ertl sold Britains to Racing Champions. Peter Evans of PLASTIC WARRIOR originally painted the samples to be copied in China.
There was a lot of exciment and positive feeling from the plastics section when the 'new' WBritains' ex Deetail ranges first appeared but since then...zilch and any positive support has now faded away.

I agree, I was also very excitet when Britains came out with the new "Super Deetail":

I was thinking this was a start to a new era, and they even asked around about us Collectors opinon on that we would like to see produced. But since then nothing. A shame as I really like & love my Old & "New" Britains:

I also like my DSG, but also here nothing seems to happend anymore!.

 

[danscott]

I am fully sick and tired of plastic collectors being treated either as as second class or as an embrassing poor relative.
Why is this?
I have my own opinions but would like to hear others first.

The more you kill and burn, the better it will please me"
U.S General Jacob Smith Philippines 1901

looks like i am a bit late to this thread.but i think all toy soldier collectors should really stick together,because we are generally looked at as weirdos or strange anyway by most people in my experience,there is always some smart dick#### with a negative comment.they feel threatened for some reason,so of course i play up to that and give them something to feel uncomfortable about.
its no different to those of us who have tattoos,its always the people without who have a negative comment,never the other way round.
simo

 

[desk11desk12]

Why are they?

I didn't know they were second class. I don't hear anyone bad mouthing them.

I don't see alot manufactures out there producing enough quality plastic figures compared to metal. Oh yeah there are some like TSSD, Conte, etc.

Yet where is the marketing?

Frankly, where is the participation of plastic manufacturers on this Forum and there is too few collector's on this Forum that participate.

I got my start in collecting toy soldiers by first collecting FOV, 21st Century, TSSD and Conte. Well, there's my two cents.

Carlos