Why are plastic collectors treated as second class? (1 Viewer)

[gk5717]

I,ve been a plastics collector long before I started collecting metal.
I think the problem with plastics today is that it is just so expensive to produce them.
TSSD seems to have found a way to make a few dollars but they come out with only 2 sets of 6 or 8 figures a year.
Just read on Cunninghams site, he is the guy that did a set of 6 plastic Confederates, that set #2 will be delayed as he has to concentrate on selling set #1. Reading between the lines tells me things are not going so well with sales of #1. This is not a knock as I wish him nothing but success, but goes to show you have to sell a lot of plastic at $17 a bag to recoup your investment.
Even Conte will admit to the fact of plastic expense.
Thank goodness for my converter guy, Gary Binder, are else plastics for me would have been just a memory.
Gary

 

[hsm]

There is probably a Plastics club or Forum somewhere. In my short time at Treefrog (all worth it), it seems this is a KC Britains,Frontline,kind of place. I read this thread and offered up some great plastics for sale over in the classifieds...last count 23 window shoppers. not good for business......therein lies the answer(?)
GL

I,ve been a plastics collector long before I started collecting metal.
I think the problem with plastics today is that it is just so expensive to produce them.
TSSD seems to have found a way to make a few dollars but they come out with only 2 sets of 6 or 8 figures a year.
Just read on Cunninghams site, he is the guy that did a set of 6 plastic Confederates, that set #2 will be delayed as he has to concentrate on selling set #1. Reading between the lines tells me things are not going so well with sales of #1. This is not a knock as I wish him nothing but success, but goes to show you have to sell a lot of plastic at $17 a bag to recoup your investment.
Even Conte will admit to the fact of plastic expense.
Thank goodness for my converter guy, Gary Binder, are else plastics for me would have been just a memory.
Gary

 

[Deitz]

I collect Timpo and have Conte plastic sets, I have never felt like second class, although I also collect metal figures too.

 

[Gideon]

As much as SOME metal collectors act as if their collections are superior SOME plastic collectors look snidely at metal collectors as "blue blooded" and overly indulgent.

I find the this question very childish.

 

[hsm]

As much as SOME metal collectors act as if their collections are superior SOME plastic collectors look snidely at metal collectors as "blue blooded" and overly indulgent.

I find the this question very childish.

true that! Probably because Collecting Toy Soldiers is a little childish!
I can see your "blue blood" point. You could buy ,paint and set up a diorama of a TSSD Custer playset, show it a show, only to have a few comments about them not being metal....I can definelty imagine that.
Plastics are high quality, you get a lot and they are cheap! I think it is a perfect way to intice younger collectors into the hobby.

 

[Gideon]

true that! Probably because Collecting Toy Soldiers is a little childish!
I can see your "blue blood" point. You could buy ,paint and set up a diorama of a TSSD Custer playset, show it a show, only to have a few comments about them not being metal....I can definelty imagine that.
Plastics are high quality, you get a lot and they are cheap! I think it is a perfect way to intice younger collectors into the hobby.

Yeah.

Like how Dinky collectors looked at Matchbox collectors, etc.

In the end, on both sides, it's a p!ssing contest. A lot of collecting winds up being like that and it kind of frustrates me.

You know the conversation where you talk about the thing you just scored and somebody talks about more ultra limited version they got and takes over the conversation. I've seen that a lot. Very little real interaction - just me, me, me, me, me, me, me.

It's one thing to share and compare and another when it devolves into one-ups.

In fact, I know plenty collectors who buy some really nice metal stuff and fill in the ranks with loads of plastics and it looks wonderful displayed.

Some folks just need to get over themselves. What's really being compared is different versions of cast material painted and detailed to varying degrees.

 

[The Military Workshop]

I still have all my Timpo plastics from the late 60's and 70's and as the saying goes they just don't make them like they used to.
I also have lots of my Airfix 1/35 and 1/72 and my son played with them (I did not let him play with the Timpo) and I would like to think his son (or daughter ?) will play with them.
Have previosuly sold Conte plastics and they were very good quality but the hard part as far as I am concerned would be trying to paint them. For some strange reason my 1/35 Airfix British Commandos I painted with Red caps when I was a kid and I did the same for the Japanese hats. Must make them collectors pieces now.
The kids are now more into the Warhammer/Games Workshop wargaming figures and unfortunately they are sci-fi/fantasy and not based on actual hsitory. And then there are the computer games (only 6 days until we get Napoleon - Total War).
I would not know too many adults who are into plastics and if I was selling it I would probably be aiming for the Toy Soldier collector to buy for his kid so they don't touch their metal figures.
From reading things written by Richard Conte the cost of producing plastic is not cheap and is a big investment. Only works if you can sell in big quantities.
In purely commercial terms I would think producing and selling metal would be easier than plastic where have to sell far more items.
Just my thoughts.
Regards
Brett

 

[The Military Workshop]

I forgot to mention the best plastics since Timpo. In my opinion that was the Armies in Plastic range of the Lord of the Rings figures etc that came out a few years ago.
I saw them previewed at a Hobby Trade show (4/5 years ago ?) and was very excited as a dealer and LOTR fan. Full colour, great poses and reasonable price.
However when they came out the marketing and selling method was all wrong. For example there may have been 10 foot figure sets (3 figs each). As a dealer I would have to order say 12 foot sets and I would be supplied with a mixture by the agent. I could not choose what I wanted. I subsequently discovered that none of the foot sets that had the Legolas figure even came into Australia. What this meant was that even as dealer I could not get a complete set. Once I saw how the agent was supllying them I complained and never ordered again. I heard there were 5,000 of each set produced. Already a mistake becuase a set with Legolas is going to sell far more than a set with 3 Orcs. Total waste of a great product
It was similar to the McFarlane and Dusty Trail figures where I would have to buy in sets of six. However very few customers wanted to buy a set of six. So you might have two hot figures, 2 OK figures and two duds. With Dusty Trail you could have WWII mixed in with a Samurai, a Red Indian and a Lawman. Well unfortunately if the duds did not sell then that was most of your profit. To get more of the hot ones you would have to get more duds !!!
Armies in plastic should have sold very well but this kind of marketing where the shop can not choose is a poor method.
Any other dealers had out there had this experience ?
Regards
Brett

 

[modwalls]

They can only treat you as a second class if you let them. This is a TOY SOLDIER forum, most Metal collectors grew up playing with plastic soldiers. The plastic today is of a much higher quality, not from all makers, but most. I love the paint jobs poses and detail of alot of the metal companies, but I can't buy them for price reasons. If you accidentally drop your whatever price metal soldier, oh well good luck trying to repair it. The metal collectors, not all put to much emphasis on their price, and future worth. They tend to just become rich man nicknacks, but a lot of the members on this forum do set them up and display them. They even worry about what is going to happen to them when they are gone. The Conte plastics, in my humble opinion, are the Best Toy Soldiers produced today. I think they are getting better and better, and the scale is a good size. I like the Britans, K&C, and Figarti for their poses and paint jobs. I wish doing plastic wasn't so expensive, because I believe these companies like Conte, would bring in many more collectors. I have said this before, I'm not a collector, I'm an enthusiast.

 

[gk5717]

Since I collect both metal and plastic, here is one observation. Having attended 20 OTSN shows and reading numerous forums, one difference I have found between metal and polastic collectors is that some, not all, plastic collectors are "cheap". Quibling over a dollar for a set or figure.
I have discussed the cost of doing a set of 6 different plastic figures from start to finish, with a guy who just got into that aspect and he stated it was around $25000. He also said that he had to keep the retail price at around $17 for a bag of 12, to keep it affordable! Now that is a lot of bags to sell to just break even.
Personally I would pay double that amount for new, well done plastic figures.
Having said that, I guess plastic at almost any price seems like a bargain when one metal figure now sells for around $32.
Gary

 

[binder001]

I am sometimes surprised that resin figures have not caught in in our hobby. They are definitely limited production and the detail on 1/35th resin figures is incredible! Perhaps because the price per figure is almost as much as metal and the material can be fragile, but the detail has to be seen to be appreciated. Not all plastics are created the same.

Gary B.

 

[trooper]

I am sometimes surprised that resin figures have not caught in in our hobby. They are definitely limited production and the detail on 1/35th resin figures is incredible! Perhaps because the price per figure is almost as much as metal and the material can be fragile, but the detail has to be seen to be appreciated. Not all plastics are created the same.

Gary B.

The main problem with resin is the cost. Also there is quite a high failure rate as even a small airhole means that casting has to be rejected and, unlike metal, such failures cannot be recycled. I recall speaking to one maker at Euromilitaire some years ago who said that one particular figure of his had a failure rate of 30% which caused the very early withdrawal of that item from his catalogue.

 

[Beau]

Plastic production is a tough business.

I can only speak from my experiences, but it is a huge investment, and it's all upfront. Pretty daunting for a company to take that kind of risk. gk5717's numbers were pretty right on, give or take depending on the price of sculpting. So you can imagine, a single "flop", and you're out of business.

I can't speak for other manufacturers, but I', not really in it to make money. As long as we can make our investment back with enough left over to get started on the next set, all is good.

Regarding the original topic of this post, I've never considered plastic as second class. it's just all about what you like. I dig plastic because it allows me to build huge armies, and I prefer unpainted solid colored figures. I've even painted over 21st Century figures with a solid color so they would match my other figures.

Beau Cunnyngham

 

[modwalls]

Beau, that is a lot of up front expense, I will be getting at least 4 sets of your Rebs after hearing that. Those figs do look great, and I'm a procrastinator when it comes to buying toy soldiers. Not cheap like our cheap shot friend Gary says. I also wish you well in the toy soldier industry, yours go great with the Conte and TSSD.

 

[redsoldiercollector]

You know guys I love my plastics as most of you so as well. I wish I had the money to buy an enourmouse metal collection, but have found satisfaction in painting my own plastics. I am only a few cannon crews away from having a full 140 piece french 54mm Napoleonic army complete with infantry, cavalry, artillery, and a general staff. I painted the whole thing and would not take every King and Country set made to replace it. I have a British one started as well as an Austrian. So, the metals are awesome, but it is more rewarding for me to paint my own and the plastics make it very affordable to assemble a nice collection.

 

[hsm]

You know guys I love my plastics as most of you so as well. I wish I had the money to buy an enourmouse metal collection, but have found satisfaction in painting my own plastics. I am only a few cannon crews away from having a full 140 piece french 54mm Napoleonic army complete with infantry, cavalry, artillery, and a general staff. I painted the whole thing and would not take every King and Country set made to replace it. I have a British one started as well as an Austrian. So, the metals are awesome, but it is more rewarding for me to paint my own and the plastics make it very affordable to assemble a nice collection.

that sounds great-but-no pics...it doesn't exist!

I have been thinking about doing something like this myself.

 

[matosjr321]

I recently posted this in the 'How To' section on Plastics:
At the last PLASTIC WARRIOR show in London I asked one of the PW editors about Britains plastics. He told me he went to the British Toy and Hobby Trade Show at the Excel Centre where WBritains had a stand.
He mentioned about the plastic ranges and the sales rep said to him that 'That just the cheap stuff for the kids'.
I feel that this sums up the companies attitude in general

Spike Milligan

In my opinion, sounds like this sales rep is just a big fish in a tiny pond. If he wants to make that statement, let him, if you are passionate about collecting plastic figures, don't let it bother you. There's always going to be those people who think there hobby is the coolest, and could care less about other hobbies, even if it's just the difference between plastic and metal. I think that most collectors of toy soldiers have an appreciation for all toy soldiers. Because at the end of the day, it all ends the same way, we take our little men and we set em up using our imagination's, or at least most of us. As a collector of composition and metal figures, I don't have too much more to say, because I can see how some people may look down on plastic, but I can tell you this, I never will because I will always remember my roots for my love for toy soldiers..... and I can sum it up in three words..... Guns of Navarone!!!

 

[redsoldiercollector]

I have some pics, just not the ability to resize them for this site, but my wife has a new camera so I may try them on that.

 

[matosjr321]

I have some pics, just not the ability to resize them for this site, but my wife has a new camera so I may try them on that.

If you have photobucket, you can upload them and resize from there, that's what I do. It just takes some time

-Tyler

 

[redsoldiercollector]

Just uploaded my pictures from my french army collection on the painting section. Go check it out everyone. I would love to hear some feedback.