Why no bayonets? (1 Viewer)

[King's Man]

Britain's,

Please explain to me why the two new Black Watch figures, 36021, kneeling firing and 36017, standing firing were made without bayonets. I am very disappointed to see this.

The only reason I have ever heard is the one that the bayonet would be removed when firing the muskets so it wouldn’t get in the way. I disagree with this if that firing was to be taking place while the troops were formatted up in a square facing off attacking French cavalry. However, let’s say that is your reason for producing the two figures without bayonets, so why then did you product figure 36018, standing loading with his bayonet attached? Does he remove his bayonet as soon as he is finished loading so he can then fire his musket without one?

These two bayonets less figures will ruin the look of any future square that I would make using these e figures. Figures without bayonets do not sell as well as one with them. Why do you go out of your way to product figures without bayonets when all the other ones have them?

Is it too late to add the bayonet to these figures?

King’s Man

 

[theBaron]

I thought the British army performed all evolutions with fixed bayonets, from the middle of the 18th century on. I know the Prussian army did. It was no impediment to loading and firing.

Prost!
Brad

 

[4th Hussar]

I have not seen these new figures. Are they on the TF website ?

 

[thebritfarmer]

I have not seen these new figures. Are they on the TF website ?

Yes they are, but they haven't been released yet so they may well appear with bayonets.

 

[craig1985taylor]

They are real nice pieces & im sure ill buy them with or without the bayonets

 

[The Lt.]

Could it be that these two were caught by themselves away from the square and didn't have time to fix their bayonets. As stated by others and I agree they're great looking figures............The Lt.

 

[fishead19690]

Cheer up it could be worst, Like the K&C new black watch figures standing to repel without bayonets!
I,m sure it would be a lot easier to load and fire without it on and then just attach it on when the cavalry closed in.

 

[Spitfrnd]

I thought the British army performed all evolutions with fixed bayonets, from the middle of the 18th century on. I know the Prussian army did. It was no impediment to loading and firing.
...

Not from what I have read. The bayonets made the rifles heavier and more awkward to manipulate and were likely to bruise hands and fingers in loading. That said, they were much more commonly attached in battle than not for all but the light and rifle companies.

 

[King's Man]

I would like to hear what Britain’s reason is for not putting bayonets on these figures. I think the real reason may not have anything to do with historical accuracy. It may have more to do with the bayonets breaking off too often when being shipped.

Britain is not the only company that does this, K & C’s new American Revolution figures are the same way. All have bayonets except the two firing figures. However, sometimes they do add the bayonet, an example is the K & C British standing firing figure which is one of my favorites.

I love the new Britain’s Black Watch figures and am personally disappointed they did go the extra mile and do the job right. I can live with my disappointment better if I could understand why. Ken, these are great figures are they yours? Please can you help me understand why companies are often not putting bayonets on firing figures?

King’s Man

 

[thebritfarmer]

I would like to hear what Britain’s reason is for not putting bayonets on these figures. I think the real reason may not have anything to do with historical accuracy. It may have more to do with the bayonets breaking off too often when being shipped.

Britain is not the only company that does this, K & C’s new American Revolution figures are the same way. All have bayonets except the two firing figures. However, sometimes they do add the bayonet, an example is the K & C British standing firing figure which is one of my favorites.

I love the new Britain’s Black Watch figures and am personally disappointed they did go the extra mile and do the job right. I can live with my disappointment better if I could understand why. Ken, these are great figures are they yours? Please can you help me understand why companies are often not putting bayonets on firing figures?

King’s Man

I don't think it is to do with them breaking off, all my 24th foot have bayonets and have all arrived in tip top shape.

 

[Cornwallis]

Britain is not the only company that does this, K & C’s new American Revolution figures are the same way. All have bayonets except the two firing figures. However, sometimes they do add the bayonet, an example is the K & C British standing firing figure which is one of my favorites.

I have just checked and the standing firing figure does have a bayonet attached however the kneeling figure does not.

PS - I also like the BR048 British standing firing!

 

[Jagdpanther]

It doesn't really bother me that they dont have bayonets they could have lost them?

 

[King's Man]

Sorry, I stand corrected as to the new K & C standing firing figure not having a bayonet. You have to admit they look better when they do have bayonets.

The fact that some firing figures do have bayonets and they do seem to survive makes it all the more interesting as to why these two figures are lacking theirs.

If these figures are to be released in their present form maybe Britain’s would consider making and selling an independent item. This item would be extra bayonets which could be glued on if the collectors wish to improve their figures. This is something that could also be used to improve K & C figures. These could have ten to twenty in a pack and be already painted.

Wishful thinking on my part.

King’s Man

 

[Ken & Ericka Osen/H&A Studio]

Hi There!
I will look into this when Richard gets back as he is still in the UK. The standing and kneeling firing figures share the same arm as a part, and as I recall all of the figures had bayonets on the original patterns.
Occasionally small parts on the resin masters break off in shipping and these two might be the result of one bayonet going AWOL.
We will keep you posted.
All the Best!
Ken

 

[theBaron]

Not from what I have read. The bayonets made the rifles heavier and more awkward to manipulate and were likely to bruise hands and fingers in loading. That said, they were much more commonly attached in battle than not for all but the light and rifle companies.

Thanks for clarifying! I'm not as familiar with the various manuals of arms that the British used at the time.

The Prussians definitely operated with fixed bayonets as a matter of process, from early in the First Silesian War, until "they came to regard the musket and bayonet as a dissoluble whole" (quoted in Duffy).

 

[Ken & Ericka Osen/H&A Studio]

If it would have been intentional to omit a fixed bayonet for this series we would have still had one on the kneeling firing figure.
The kneeling front rank and the second rank would have had the responsibility of repelling the attackers with the third, and if the number of men present allow, the forth rank keeping up the fire.
In most cases these first two ranks would not fire until things got pretty dicy. It would be more acceptable to have all of the standing firing and loading figures without bayonets fixed, but that was not the intent.
It is always a difficult call to pick the moment in time to represent when creating a range of figures, and to do it justice it requires a fair number of poses.
By the way, all of these figures are offered as singles. I am currently working on four more important figures for this collection which will appear in the Spring flyer.
Ken

 

[theBaron]

And I sympathize with you, Ken, and Britains-I have a heck of a time getting the bayonets to cast successfully, when I use my Prins August molds! Even when they're vented like crazy, often, they cast short.

 

[glossman]

I don't think it is to do with them breaking off, all my 24th foot have bayonets and have all arrived in tip top shape.

Hi Scott,

In my personal experience, many of the figures (not necessarily 24th Foot) I buy come not only the bayonets, but also the rifle barrels pointing in all conceivable directions other than the correct one.

The most common angulation is skyward towards the heavens for some unearthly reason.

Best, Raymond.

Addendum: These comments do not apply to brand new sets with figures well embedded in foam inserts. Rather, it applies to used and unboxed figures sold on the secondary market.

 

[Le' Murat]

Not from what I have read. The bayonets made the rifles heavier and more awkward to manipulate and were likely to bruise hands and fingers in loading. That said, they were much more commonly attached in battle than not for all but the light and rifle companies.

Spitfrnd is correct. In some cases it was impossible to fire accurately with bayonets fixed so not having them on could be just as authentic as having them fixed. That being said I believe the figures look very nice and would be a fine addition.

 

[King's Man]

Ken,

Thank you for your reply. I have always admired your work and look forward to seen the planned additional figures in the spring.

The muskets of this era were not to be aimed, but pointed in the right direction and fired. The smoothbore muskets were made without sights and were very inaccurate. What you said about the rear rank not having them fixed makes sense, however I still prefer all my figures making up the square to have their bayonets on.

Thank you again Ken for your reply. You are a very talent man; please keep up the good work.

King’s Man