William Britains 1/30 Scale! When! Why! (1 Viewer)

[katana]

I have always associated Britians as the founder of the 1/32 Scale 54MM figure. The recent move to 1/30 Scale 58MM is a bit of a shock. Less than 10 years ago W. Britains was issuing extensive lines of WWII figures, armor and artillery in 1/32 Scale and these are still being sold! When did the change occur? The W. Britains website states that all matte figures are 1/30 Scale 58MM and all gloss figures are 1/32 54MM. I thought 1/30 Scale was 60MM! When did it change? I can see why some collectors are confused when W. Britains WWII figures are equal in size to First Legion WWII figures and First Legion is erroniously accused of being 1/32 Scale, because Britains have always been considered 1/32 54MM
Other than the statement on the W. Britains website and a few passing comments on various Treefrog Forum threads citeing compatabilty with First Legion WWII figures, I cannot recall ever seeing an official announcement of this change! I would like to be informed by those who know when and why this transformation occured. I presume the new owners of W. Britains; First Gear must have influenced this decision; but it is certainly an historic change! I will be very interested in any Armor releases in the 1/30 Scale.

 

[Toy Soldier Brigade]

I have always associated Britians as the founder of the 1/32 Scale 54MM figure. The recent move to 1/30 Scale 58MM is a bit of a shock. Less than 10 years ago W. Britains was issuing extensive lines of WWII figures, armor and artillery in 1/32 Scale and these are still being sold! When did the change occur? The W. Britains website states that all matte figures are 1/30 Scale 58MM and all gloss figures are 1/32 54MM. I thought 1/30 Scale was 60MM! When did it change? I can see why some collectors are confused when W. Britains WWII figures are equal in size to First Legion WWII figures and First Legion is erroniously accused of being 1/32 Scale, because Britains have always been considered 1/32 54MM
Other than the statement on the W. Britains website and a few passing comments on various Treefrog Forum threads citeing compatabilty with First Legion WWII figures, I cannot recall ever seeing an official announcement of this change! I would like to be informed by those who know when and why this transformation occured. I presume the new owners of W. Britains; First Gear must have influenced this decision; but it is certainly an historic change! I will be very interested in any Armor releases in the 1/30 Scale.

They're are numerous threads on this topic. I believe that Britain's have been making 1/30 scale figures for at least ten years now. Long before First Legion came into the market. I'm also pretty sure First Gear has been the "New" owners of Britain's. since around 2005.

 

[katana]

Thank you for the response. I did a search of the Treefrog Forum regarding Britains change to 1/30 scale and I could only find vague references to the figure size gradualy increasing over time to where they now are equivalent to 1/30 scale First Legion WWII figures. When did they offically acknowledge on their Website that the matte figures are 1/30 scale? I knew the 1st Gear aquisition was a few years ago; however they were still releasing armor and artillery marked 1/32 scale in 2006!
Figarti publicised their change from 1/32 to 1/30 and marked their products accordingly and I believe W. Britains has also done so with their website statement. I hope they label the products so the old 1/32 scale can be differentiated from the 1/30 scale. I wish other figure makers would be so forthright regarding the size and compatability of their products with the 1/30 scale 60MM standard. I welcome the W. Britains figure scale increase as they will work superbly with my Figarti armor; which I consider the best to date in 1/30 scale. Thomas Gunn armor would also be compatable.

 

[Peter Reuss]

My understanding is that the scale has not changed at all...only the description of it. Britains is not making a new sized figure...Ken Osen of Britains took out the ruler and discerned that what was being called 1:32 scale was actually bigger than that (and many company's 1:30 scale are larger than 1:30).

 

[katana]

Peter; thank you for the response. I was just looking through the Treefrog W. Britains listings and found several things of interest. The #25016 Fallschirmjager is posted with a photo next to a scale indicating a figure height of 60MM, thus verifying what the W. Britains website states as to size and scale. The figure is at least 5 years old so this verifys the change in size has occured over time. Treefrog stipulates in the W. Britains introduction that the figures are 54MM; this information needs to be updated to 58mm to avoid confusion, at least as regards the matte figures! The larger size and compatibility with First Legion, Figarti and Thomas Gunn vehicles should be of great interest. Many recent posts and photos on several threads have pointed out the realism achieved using the true 60MM First Legion figures with the true 1/30 scale (60MM) vehicles. The compatability can now include W. Britains figures and artillery, thus extending the range of options for displays. W.Britains needs to better publicise this new size and compatability. I believe other outlets for W. Britains are still referencing them as 1/32 scale 54 mm size in error! I will research that. Best Regards
PS I just checked both Seirra Toy Soldier and Hobby Bunker websites and both sites refer to W.Britains figures as 1/32 scale and/or 54mm size. Given the fact that W.Britains is intoducing a large line of new WWII figures I think it would be wise for W. Britains to make sure all of their vendors are on the same page as to the size and scale of their new figures.

 

[Peter Reuss]

Hmm...I thought we'd updated when Britains changed how they explained their scale...I'll have my folks look into it tomorrow. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[katana]

Peter; the thing I find most interesting is that those individuals who stated that W. Britains WWII figures were the same size as First Legion WWII figures were correct. W. Britains is no longer 1/32 but has grown into 1/30; by intent or happenstance is the question. Figarti's move from 1/32 to 1/30 was intentional! K&C's move from 1/32 to 1/30 was very gradual and possibly happenstance. How did W.Britains arrive at 1/30 from 1/32; which was a standard Britains established?

 

[Toy Soldier Brigade]

I have always advertized them as 1/30

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Hi Peter,

Sorry to mention the obvious but how can as quoted " and many company´s 1:30 scale are larger than 1:30..." The mm scale is universal and does not change from place to place, so either one or the other is wrong.....And being wrong they need to assess and address the error by publising their correct scale so as to avoid us collectors from buying sets that once in our possession are not compatible....I myself have found out and got upset that once having bought a set and having it delivered when placing it along side other pieces figured out that the sizes were wrong although stated as being the same....On soldiers the issue can be seen on weapons and gear, given that those have an unique size and should not change unless the manufacturer is known to do that on purpose such as K&C who´s weapons are Always a bit bigger that the real stuff...soldiers sometimes are higher and chubbier...But when you get to AFVs, tanks and vehicles and you place them side by side the scale difference between a 1:30 to a 1:32 is huge......
Trooper has just left us but we start to miss him already...he would have stepped into this conversation and settled the rule as it should be....As a matter of fact he did in the past and there are threads with his teachings in the forum and those interested in the real/core way of measuring and therefore check if your next purchase is on the correct scale should read his notes....
Cheers
A_C

My understanding is that the scale has not changed at all...only the description of it. Britains is not making a new sized figure...Ken Osen of Britains took out the ruler and discerned that what was being called 1:32 scale was actually bigger than that (and many company's 1:30 scale are larger than 1:30).

 

[PanzerBlitz]

There is confusion out there about the scale - and Britains itself is contributory. Britains' catalogs have an intro that states and shows that glossy figures are 54mm (or about 1/32 scale) while the matte figures are 60mm, or 1/30 scale.

I mostly collect matte figures, with Britains WWI and Napoleonic being additions this year. I have over 60 sets of the matte figures, and the labelling on both the boxes and the clamshells still states that the figures are 54mm. A quick examination indicates that they are larger, and I agree with Ken's assessment that their figures are 58 to 60mm. No wonder both retailers and collectors are confused when there is inconsistent documentation from the firm.

 

[mgw]

I have most of the Britain's US and German figures from the Operation Cobra series released sometime back. I am hopeful that the new releases will be compatible in terms of size (also with Old Northwest figures). Given the discussion on size comparisons to FL figures, I have provided comparison pics of the few FL Stalingrad Germans I own and Britain's German figures in similar poses. As one can see, there are differences in helmet sizes and and figure proportions, but weapons are reasonably close in size. I think the Britains figure are excellent and looking forward to the new releases.

Mike

 

[mgw]

The issue of compatibility of Britain's figures with 1/30 vehicles was also raised and the pics below show Britains figures along with Figarti vehicles (also TGM)- IMO the Britain's figures and 1/30 vehicles go well together.
Mike

 

[katana]

Great photos. I think the comparison photos establish without doubt that First Legion and W. Britains WWII figures are the same scale/size! The Diorama is superb and demonstrates how realisticaly true 60mm figures work with Figarti and Thomas Gunn Armor. I believe both Figarti and W. Britains have made a good decision to move their figure size to a true 60mm as measured and not just as advertised! A split definetly now exists in the 1/30 scale Toy Soldier market, between those manufacturers whose products are a measurable 60mm and those much larger at a measured 65-68 mm size. I cannot understand why manufacturers of otherwise excellent products continue to produce figures and vehicles of two different sizes within the same scale! Very curious! Perhaps for these manufacturers a new figure size of 70mm and a scale of 1/26 like the old Elastolin/Lineol standard should be recognized as what they have grown into!

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Great photos. I think the comparison photos establish without doubt that First Legion and W. Britains WWII figures are the same scale/size! The Diorama is superb and demonstrates how realisticaly true 60mm figures work with Figarti and Thomas Gunn Armor. I believe both Figarti and W. Britains have made a good decision to move their figure size to a true 60mm as measured and not just as advertised! A split definetly now exists in the 1/30 scale Toy Soldier market, between those manufacturers whose products are a measurable 60mm and those much larger at a measured 65-68 mm size. I cannot understand why manufacturers of otherwise excellent products continue to produce figures and vehicles of two different sizes within the same scale! Very curious! Perhaps for these manufacturers a new figure size of 70mm and a scale of 1/26 like the old Elastolin/Lineol standard should be recognized as what they have grown into!

First Legion states that their WWII figures are 1/30 scale, but when paired up with these 1/32 scale Britains....They are a match. I always felt that FL was 1/32 scale all along !

Wayne

 

[mgw]

I just want to point out that Britains and Old Northwest have been making this scale of figures years now, so it is not a new move to 1/30. I hope they stay at this scale to to be compatible with earlier sets. Also, note the much more recently released single figures (e.g., Falschirmjaeger) are also this same scale.

Mike

 

[ivanmoe]

IMO the Britain's figures and 1/30 vehicles go well together.

In some instances, the Britain's figures and "other-manufacturer-vehicles" go together better than the latter's own figure-sets. To be clear, I'm writing in reference to figure-height.

-Moe

 

[katana]

Wayne; both First Legion and W. Britains WWII figures measure 60mm=1/30 scale. Great photos Moe! The big question is why would W. Britains, Old Northwest et. al. that made 1/32=54mm figures change to 1/30=60mm figures and continue to market them as 1/32? How long has this been going on? I remember Matt at First legion swearing up, down and sideways that his figures were 60mm; but since they matched W. Britains in size and K&C figures were much larger, Matt was not believed until someone with a caliper actually measured the figures! Sierra Toy Soldiers even went so far as to post comparison photos with a scale adjacent to juxtapoised K&C and First Legion figures to show the actual size and difference in proportions between them! One figure was 67mm and chunky the other was 60mm and slim; guess which was by whom.

 

[uksubs]

They're are numerous threads on this topic.

Yep nothing new coming out of this thread that we already know

 

[bradleyl30]

Wayne; both First Legion and W. Britains WWII figures measure 60mm=1/30 scale. Great photos Moe! The big question is why would W. Britains, Old Northwest et. al. that made 1/32=54mm figures change to 1/30=60mm figures and continue to market them as 1/32? How long has this been going on? I remember Matt at First legion swearing up, down and sideways that his figures were 60mm; but since they matched W. Britains in size and K&C figures were much larger, Matt was not believed until someone with a caliper actually measured the figures! Sierra Toy Soldiers even went so far as to post comparison photos with a scale adjacent to juxtapoised K&C and First Legion figures to show the actual size and difference in proportions between them! One figure was 67mm and chunky the other was 60mm and slim; guess which was by whom.

Yes, people focus often on just the height which is a huge mistake. Looking at weapons, equipment and overall bulkiness of figures is also important. There are always variations in height and weight of humans / figures. The super large FJ officer by FL comes to mind, but when you measure his gear and weapon... don, don, daaaaahhhhhnnnnn... they still all measure correctly for 1/30!

 

[katana]

Moe; The Kommander figure in the Figart Panther G is 67mm tall. Photgraph him next to the W. Britains Fallschirmjager to show the actual difference between true 1/30 and the 1/27 scale Figarti figure. His head is above the deck of the Panther and the real Panther deck is 6 feet 3 inches high. One very tall Panzer Kommander! I cannot believe Figarti did that; I guess they did not think customers would stand him next to the Panther! Anyway 67mm is the average height of many TCS, K&C and Figarti figures and they look silly with true 1/30 scale vehicles.