WWI Australian Field Gun and Ammunition Caisson (1 Viewer)

[PolarBear]

SoW Sets:
WW139A
WW139B

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Hi Polar Bear,
I think the manufacturer SoW or seller mixied things up for you....
I have no recollection of the Australian Army ever using a 75 quick fire field gun and cassion as you here depict...
The Australian Army as part of the Empire would have used British designed pdrs, on the other hand the Americans did use the Frech designed 75 and is a current offer on SoW catalogue....see pictures.....

SoW Sets:
WW139A
WW139B

 

[PolarBear]

Hi Polar Bear,
I think the manufacturer SoW or seller mixied things up for you....
I have no recollection of the Australian Army ever using a 75 quick fire field gun and cassion as you here depict...
The Australian Army as part of the Empire would have used British designed pdrs, on the other hand the Americans did use the Frech designed 75 and is a current offer on SoW catalogue....see pictures.....

Interesting. The guys usually do their research. I will check with them.

Randy

P.S. According to Routledge, Brigadier N.W. (1994). History of the Royal Regiment of Artillery. Anti-aircraft artillery 1914-55. London: Brassey's, in WWI the British had 29 of the French 75mm but used them as anti-aircraft artillery.

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Hi Randy,

Please do check with SoW they should not blunder it so bad......
I they could convert these 75s into one of these famous French 75s used on an AA mode would be fantastic.....they were intersting set ups by the way and were used in the Western Front by the British while the Brits did not devise their own British pdr ( good example is the one assembled on the back of a lorry as produced by many manufacturers such as Toy Armyworkshop, Britians and more recently Cleive´s new company). The mention you refer to was a...kind of a stop gap improvised ....They ended up being used as AA guns due to their fantastic rate of fire and recoil system ...... For this the gun barrel/recoil mechanism etc and aiming mechanisms were taken away from the carriage and added to pedestals and in other ocassions the whole gun and carriage were elevated so as to literally point into the sky.
The biggest draw back of the 75 was the low capability of barrel elevation on its regular configuaration....field gun....The gun was devised for a " Napoleonic battlefield " that is firing from open sights on a plain field.....and as WW1 progressed and the need to protect the guns and garrison from counter battery fire, small arms fire and machineguns..made all guns to either be dug in or on a counter slop position ...and with that came the issue of the low elevation capability .... as you can see the barrel had a major obstacle when the garrison tried to elevate the barrel ...the gun trail!!
From the need to provide greater elevation to guns that you start seeing guns in which the trail is no longer solid but have a space inbetween the sides of the trail so that the barrel could be depressed or even more the Split trails were introduced...
The French having hundreds of these 75s and facing this issue were in dire problems...reason why in some contemporary pictures you see the guns on a small slope with the barrel pointing upwards...{sm4}{sm4}
Cheers
Luiz

Interesting. The guys usually do their research. I will check with them.

Randy

P.S. According to Routledge, Brigadier N.W. (1994). History of the Royal Regiment of Artillery. Anti-aircraft artillery 1914-55. London: Brassey's, in WWI the British had 29 of the French 75mm but used them as anti-aircraft artillery.

 

[PolarBear]

Hi Randy,

Please do check with SoW they should not blunder it so bad......
I they could convert these 75s into one of these famous French 75s used on an AA mode would be fantastic.....they were intersting set ups by the way and were used in the Western Front by the British while the Brits did not devise their own British pdr ( good example is the one assembled on the back of a lorry as produced by many manufacturers such as Toy Armyworkshop, Britians and more recently Cleive´s new company). The mention you refer to was a...kind of a stop gap improvised ....They ended up being used as AA guns due to their fantastic rate of fire and recoil system ...... For this the gun barrel/recoil mechanism etc and aiming mechanisms were taken away from the carriage and added to pedestals and in other ocassions the whole gun and carriage were elevated so as to literally point into the sky.
The biggest draw back of the 75 was the low capability of barrel elevation on its regular configuaration....field gun....The gun was devised for a " Napoleonic battlefield " that is firing from open sights on a plain field.....and as WW1 progressed and the need to protect the guns and garrison from counter battery fire, small arms fire and machineguns..made all guns to either be dug in or on a counter slop position ...and with that came the issue of the low elevation capability .... as you can see the barrel had a major obstacle when the garrison tried to elevate the barrel ...the gun trail!!
From the need to provide greater elevation to guns that you start seeing guns in which the trail is no longer solid but have a space inbetween the sides of the trail so that the barrel could be depressed or even more the Split trails were introduced...
The French having hundreds of these 75s and facing this issue were in dire problems...reason why in some contemporary pictures you see the guns on a small slope with the barrel pointing upwards...{sm4}{sm4}
Cheers
Luiz

Luiz
Thanks for your expertise on this issue. I will contact Ian.
Randy

 

[RegalToySoldiers]

When the French troops where withdrawn from Cape Helles they left their 75mm Field guns on the Gallipoli Peninsula . Australian gunners where used to man the guns. Interesting the Turkish Army also used French 75mm guns in the Gallipoli campaign.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[PolarBear]

When the French troops where withdrawn from Cape Helles they left their 75mm Field guns on the Gallipoli Peninsula . Australian gunners where used to man the guns. Interesting the Turkish Army also used French 75mm guns in the Gallipoli campaign.

Cheers,
Ian

Ian

Very interesting story.

Many thanks for clearing this up:smile2:

Randy

 

[PolarBear]

A French Colonial 75 mm artillery gun in action near Sedd el Bahr at Cape Helles, Gallipoli during the Third Battle of Krithia, 4 June 1915.

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Hi Ian,

Very interesting and unsual ......:rolleyes2:
First time I have heard of such and even the Royal Australian Artillery site that lists all types of ordnance used by the Austrailian Artillery in all wars does not mention such event.....so I can assume it was some sporadic situation......any literature I could further read on the matter, that you could share...thanks:salute::
Artillery_Crazy
aka Luiz

When the French troops where withdrawn from Cape Helles they left their 75mm Field guns on the Gallipoli Peninsula . Australian gunners where used to man the guns. Interesting the Turkish Army also used French 75mm guns in the Gallipoli campaign.

Cheers,
Ian

Ian

Very interesting story.

Many thanks for clearing this up:smile2:

Randy

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Very nice close up of a French garrison manning a 75 QF gun......really liked to Picture....:salute:::salute::
Cheers
Luiz

A French Colonial 75 mm artillery gun in action near Sedd el Bahr at Cape Helles, Gallipoli during the Third Battle of Krithia, 4 June 1915.

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Pitty we cannot validate from the Picture if the gun and cassion are in the traditional light grey or if they are sand coloured....By the lightness of the colour on the gun and cassion I am tempted to say sand
I am working with Obee on a FFL QF 75 Regiment in the Oran theater and not sure at this stage if they would go sand or light grey...
Need to further research....
Cheers
Luiz

Very nice close up of a French garrison manning a 75 QF gun......really liked to Picture....:salute:::salute::
Cheers
Luiz

 

[PolarBear]

Luiz

Another picture of French troops at Gallipoli 1915

 

[Obee]

I have been following this thread and see that there could be something to research,
mainly did the Aussie gunners man the French 75mm gun at Gallipoli in 1915.

Well I cannot find anything in my reference books, or on the Australian War Memorial website to indicate this.

Yes, Aussie gunners were sent to Cape Helles in May 1915 to provide support to the ANZAC infantry reinforcements to allied landing.
They were equipped with 18 Pounders, but the big problem was the lack of ammunition, which was very quickly expended.
The field guns were not as useful as the howitzers, which because of a high trajectory, could lob projectiles into the Turkish trenches.

The AWM website has 3 images of French guns at Cape Helles, but no mention of an Aussie crew manning the, therefore I think that this set is not historically correct.
Its a great gun, great crew, but why not make a French crew to man the gun, and an 18 Pounder for the Aussies?

John

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Hi John,
I agree with you...guess Polar Bear bought a nice set but with no historical backing... I have the same set but correctly garrisoned by a nice US Marines troops even wearing gas masks made by SoW......Had a Continental French Artillery Garrison set also, but traded it some time ago... Ian from SoW has not come back to us with the source of the reseach he did so as to define the Aussie Garriosn to the French QF 75.....{sm4}
Cheers
AC

I have been following this thread and see that there could be something to research,
mainly did the Aussie gunners man the French 75mm gun at Gallipoli in 1915.

Well I cannot find anything in my reference books, or on the Australian War Memorial website to indicate this.

Yes, Aussie gunners were sent to Cape Helles in May 1915 to provide support to the ANZAC infantry reinforcements to allied landing.
They were equipped with 18 Pounders, but the big problem was the lack of ammunition, which was very quickly expended.
The field guns were not as useful as the howitzers, which because of a high trajectory, could lob projectiles into the Turkish trenches.

The AWM website has 3 images of French guns at Cape Helles, but no mention of an Aussie crew manning the, therefore I think that this set is not historically correct.
Its a great gun, great crew, but why not make a French crew to man the gun, and an 18 Pounder for the Aussies?

John

 

[PolarBear]

Hi John,
I agree with you...guess Polar Bear bought a nice set but with no historical backing... I have the same set but correctly garrisoned by a nice US Marines troops even wearing gas masks made by SoW......Had a Continental French Artillery Garrison set also, but traded it some time ago... Ian from SoW has not come back to us with the source of the reseach he did so as to define the Aussie Garriosn to the French QF 75.....{sm4}
Cheers
AC

Luiz
I do not own this set. i am simply posting pictures from the Regal Website of sets that are of interest to me.
Why not email Ian with your question?

office@regaltoysoldiers.co.nz

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Hi Polar Bear,

Thanks for the note.

I guess Ian is reading this thread, has even answered in one occassion, as he is also part of the forum.....
Earlier on in this thread I have already sent him a note asking him to share the historical data that backs the Royal Australian Artillery manning French 75s, so he is aware.....I am always wanting to read and learn more, so this is a good opportunity.
Like it has been said it is a nice set, but misses as far as I can see historical accuracy....If someone likes and adds it to their collection is fine, as long as he is not interested in historical backing.
For those in the hobby and want it to be as close to reality as possible this " marriage between hardware and men" seems funny....^&grin
Cheers
Luiz

Luiz
I do not own this set. i am simply posting pictures from the Regal Website of sets that are of interest to me.
Why not email Ian with your question?

office@regaltoysoldiers.co.nz

 

[PolarBear]

Luiz

Ian's post was a result of an email I sent him with your question. Don't believe he is on that often--only 6 posts since 2014. He was last on 11/22/15 so I don't believe he saw Obee's post of 11/23.

Randy

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Hi Randy,
Thanks, will send him the note.
Thanks for the e-mail address:salute::
Cheers.
Luiz

Luiz

Ian's post was a result of an email I sent him with your question. Don't believe he is on that often--only 6 posts since 2014. He was last on 11/22/15 so I don't believe he saw Obee's post of 11/23.

Randy

 

[PolarBear]

Hi Randy,
Thanks, will send him the note.
Thanks for the e-mail address:salute::
Cheers.
Luiz

Luiz

I will be interested in what you find out.

I think a version with French Colonial troops as seen in the photos would be outstanding.

Thanks Sherlock:salute::

Randy

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Hi Randy,

I have sent him an e-mail asking for his feed back with the literature upon which he based the sets!
SoW does have a set in French WW1 sky blue uniforms and adrian helmets and the same with the troops wearing gas masks, they also have them, as mentioned, in Metropolitan Artillery dark blue uniforms.....as to Legion I am not sure, nor if the Metropolitan sets come with the overseas tropical style pith helmets as seen in the pictures you and John shared with us. I agree that a Metropolitan set with pith helmets and shirt sleeves as the Australian set would be nice and very close to the pictures....
May be if he sees the thread he can come up with an idea that would be complementary to his Regular Australian/British Artillery sets as well as the Turkish one, so a Gallipoli dio would be perfect.
Cheers
Luiz

Luiz

I will be interested in what you find out.

I think a version with French Colonial troops as seen in the photos would be outstanding.

Thanks Sherlock:salute::

Randy