Good American Commanders (6 Viewers)

[marco55]

Over the years I have read many books and articles on American military leaders.Some of the biggest and most renown kind of come up short when you really dig into their careers while others who you haven't heard too much of were pretty good commanders.I would like to here some comments from members of the forum.Since there has been a lot of talk of Custer the myth and the real Custer I think the best commander in this time period against indians was Crook as his methods dealing with the Apaches was effective.(he didn't do so good against the Sioux)As for the best indian fighter I think there really wasn't one. Pick any time period or war.I'd like to here your opinions.
Mark

 

[Louis Badolato]

For my money, the best general this country produced in the 20th century was Norman Schwartkopf. His planning and execution of Operation Desert Storm was flawless.

For WWII, I am big fan of James Gavin, who was possible the finest commander of airborne forces of all time.

For overall infantry commanders, I think hands down the best was Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson (who, strangely enough, was an artillery instructor).

For "Napoleonic" style commanders, Robert E. Lee was far and away the best this country ever produced . . . do you ever wonder how a battle of Lee versus Wellington as commanders would have turned out?

For best general in a supporting role, I would give a three way tie to Jackson (Lee), William Tecumsah Sherman (Grant) and Omar Bradley (Ike).

I would vote for General Maurice Rose as the best commander of an Armored Division in WWII (3rd Spearhead Armored Division).

This country has produced some absolutely fantastic air commanders, such as Clair Chenault (A.V.G.), and Jimmy Doolittle.

I think Blackjack Pershing deserves an Honorable Mention for having the good sense to tell the french to go spit when they wanted the American Expeditionary Force to be split up and put into the trenches piecemeal under French command, and for how quickly his forces figured out the tactics it took several years and millions of casualties for the British and French commanders to adopt.

 

[trooper]

Grierson was a good cavalry commander during the Civil War, his raid through the Confederacy to divert attention from Grant's manoevres at Vicksburg was a masterpiece and he did quite well against the Indians with the Buffalo Soldiers afterwards.

 

[tdubel]

For my money, the best general this country produced in the 20th century was Norman Schwartkopf. His planning and execution of Operation Desert Storm was flawless.

For WWII, I am big fan of James Gavin, who was possible the finest commander of airborne forces of all time.

For overall infantry commanders, I think hands down the best was Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson (who, strangely enough, was an artillery instructor).

For "Napoleonic" style commanders, Robert E. Lee was far and away the best this country ever produced . . . do you ever wonder how a battle of Lee versus Wellington as commanders would have turned out?

For best general in a supporting role, I would give a three way tie to Jackson (Lee), William Tecumsah Sherman (Grant) and Omar Bradley (Ike).

I would vote for General Maurice Rose as the best commander of an Armored Division in WWII (3rd Spearhead Armored Division).

This country has produced some absolutely fantastic air commanders, such as Clair Chenault (A.V.G.), and Jimmy Doolittle.

I think Blackjack Pershing deserves an Honorable Mention for having the good sense to tell the french to go spit when they wanted the American Expeditionary Force to be split up and put into the trenches piecemeal under French command, and for how quickly his forces figured out the tactics it took several years and millions of casualties for the British and French commanders to adopt.

I agree with your assessment up and down, however, would add a few:

1. Nathan Bedford Forrest, for absolutely no formal training, he has to be considered a wizard in the saddle and pretty much invented guerilla warfare.

2. George Patton - love him or hate him for his personality and sacrifices, he still understood tank warfare and who the true enemies were better than most. He was the ultimate tank tactician and would win at all costs, unfortunately, that is what was needed at the time and lost many lives.

3. Macarthur - Again, egotistical is an understatement, but he did get the job done and knew what was needed. Tough decisions, but in the end, it was well justified.

4. I begrudingly agree with Sherman, I just dislike him from a personal perspective.

IMO

TD

 

[Louis Badolato]

I agree with your assessment up and down, however, would add a few:

1. Nathan Bedford Forrest, for absolutely no formal training, he has to be considered a wizard in the saddle and pretty much invented guerilla warfare.

2. George Patton - love him or hate him for his personality and sacrifices, he still understood tank warfare and who the true enemies were better than most. He was the ultimate tank tactician and would win at all costs, unfortunately, that is what was needed at the time and lost many lives.

3. Macarthur - Again, egotistical is an understatement, but he did get the job done and knew what was needed. Tough decisions, but in the end, it was well justified.

4. I begrudingly agree with Sherman, I just dislike him from a personal perspective.

IMO

TD

Totally agree with Forrest . . . get there firstest with the mostest.

Patton and MacArthur, however, were too flawed for me to consider them great commanders. Despite their legendary status, both should have been court martialed and cashiered or worse. I can think of no greater crime by an American commander than MacArthur's diregard of Truman's direct order not to bomb across that river into China, and its effect was disastrous, for the rest of the Korean War, and right up to today. There is no "North Korea" for us to have to deal with today if that megalomaniac follows orders. And Patton's dispatch of an entire armored task force to attempt to rescue his son-in-law was as disgraceful as it was tactically unsound. All but 12 men from that task force were killed, wounded or captured, and Patton's son-in-law remained in a POW camp until his release at the end of the war in Europe.

And that's not even taking into account that they commanded the forces that massacred WWI veterans and their families in that shanty town outside Washington, D.C., for which they should both have been lined up against a wall and shot. I know I am more than a little cold hearted and unforgiving, but to me these men are a disgrace to our nation's pround military tradition.

 

[marco55]

I think Mackenzie with the 4th Cavalry was the best combat commander against the indians in the 1866-1890 period.Miles did pretty good with infantry.What does anyone think of Andrew Jackson solely as a combat commander.We know what many people of him as president so there is no need to go into that.George Thomas was a very good commander for the union.How about Jeb Stuart?A lot like Custer in my view but a better commander.Wade Hampton was another excellent cavalry commander with no formal training
Mark

 

[VanguardFC007]

For cavalry Ill concur with Forrest.

Infantry is sort of a toss up, weve had a bunch of good ones. Jackson for sure gets a mention but how about Terry Allen with the 1st Infantry in WWII? I could even throw Patrick Cleburne in here because his record was quite exemplary as a division commander in the Army of Tenessee for the South.

Armor- John S. Wood of the 4th gets my vote, most of the credit for Patton's drive across France should go to him. Also many of his subordinates shaped the future of the American armor forces for the next 50 years - namely Creighton Abrams.

Best commanding generals -Lee, Grant, Bradley, take your pick. Ive got a special place in my heart for Lee but the more I read about Omar Bradley the more and more I respect him.

In the Air- Jimmy Doolittle was certainly a great one. How about Otto Weyland from the 19th Tactical Air Command. He revolutionized Air-Ground support.

 

[marco55]

I forgot about Cleburne he was good.I don't know much about WWII commanders but already I hear some names I'm not too familar with.This is what I wanted to know.

Mark

 

[Scott]

General Winfield Scott in the Mexican War. You have his amphibious landing and siege at Vera Cruz and his march to Mexico City with under 10,000 US troops. Lee, Grant, and a number of CW leaders got their experience under Winfield Scott.

 

[bromhead]

Col Walter R Jones,,The finest officer I knew and briefly privileged to be his driver,,several sons and sons in law serving as junior officers in Iraq and Afghan. Recently in Arlington

 

[VanguardFC007]

Being in Savannah at the moment Ill throw Nathaniel Greene into the mix. He did pretty well against the world's greatest army.

 

[Lewey Gun Vick]

These three immediately come to mind...

ACW- Joshua Chamberlain, Jackson, Lee

WWII- Richard Winters, Lewis Nixon, Ronald Spiers

Vick

​

 

[VanguardFC007]

These three immediately come to mind...

WWII- Richard Winters, Lewis Nixon, Ronald Spiers

Vick

​

Based on what Ive read and watched I certainly wouldnt argue that they did their jobs admirably. But I sorta wonder if a large portion if not the majority of the junior officer corps was just like them. But they are of course famous because of Stephen Ambrose.

And as long as Easy Company's leaders are being discussed: Carwood Lipton.

 

[Scott]

These three immediately come to mind...

ACW- Joshua Chamberlain, Jackson, Lee
​

Jackson and Lee, but Chamberlain was one who carried out a higher commander's strategies even later as a corps commander.

WWII- Richard Winters, Lewis Nixon, Ronald Spiers​

These men again as in Chamberlain, carried out higher commander's strategies.

 

[Lewey Gun Vick]

Jackson and Lee, but Chamberlain was one who carried out a higher commander's strategies even later as a corps commander.



These men again as in Chamberlain, carried out higher commander's strategies.

I respectfully disagree, just because one carries out a higher commanders strategies does not mean they are not a good commander; Winters did not follow any commanders strategie when assaulting the dike in Holland, and in the process routed two companies of SS with only a platoon, Winters took initiative, and was an aggressive, solid combat leader, and I would follow him anytime into h*ll. It was Spears who saved a company from complete disaster when they were in the hands of an incompetent commander. Also it wasn't some other general who told Chamberlain to charge down Little Round Top, thank God he did or the Republic the men of the Union died to save may have been lost that day. "Character matters; leadership descends from character." A good combat leader cares for his men, takes personal initiative, is fair, has strong moral character, takes responsibility, and is aggressive and all of these men in my opinion show all of these traits. IMO

Lipton is also another good American leader.

Vick

 

[Scott]

I was reading the original post as overall commanders of armies. There are legions of American officers and NCOs that fit as good tactical commanders.

As I wrote earlier, General Winfield Scott in the Mexican War against superior numbers in enemy territory. General Zachary Taylor rates pretty high in similar circumstances.

 

[Louis Badolato]

I was reading the original post as overall commanders of armies. There are legions of American officers and NCOs that fit as good tactical commanders.

That's the way I understood the question as well. If it means any officer, than certainly both Joshua Chamberlain and Dick Winters would rate highly, as would Lt. Waverly Ray.

 

[Fusilier]

Being in Savannah at the moment Ill throw Nathaniel Greene into the mix...

I would agree. I also am suprised that George Washington hasn't been mentioned. He was one the main reasons the United States survived in those first few years after independence. He rightly deserved consideration because of his ability to learn from his mistakes and an attitude of selflessness in service to a greater cause. Also, he invigorated the Continental Army and tried to look after them as much as possible. He was humble enough to question whether he was even up to the task of leading the army. Greene also had many of these same qualities.

Late in the war, in the Southern theatre, Greene would follow Washington's example of the 'War of posts' strategy. In this, a general engagement was avoided until the time and place of the commander's choosing. By doing so, Washington, and later Greene, realized that as long as the Continental Army existed, so did the new United States.

Noah

 

[Scott]

Washington and Greene have been mentioned. As independent commanders Daniel Morgan can be included for the Battle of Cowpens and George Rogers Clark for his campaign in the Ohio Territory. Sam Huston also comes to mind for conserving his forces until winning at San Jacinto.

 

[Warrior]

I'll take U.S. Grant every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Here is a rundown of Grant and what he accomplished during the ACW;

Battles won 18
Forts captured 2
Cities captured 5
Armies captured 3
Number of combat deaths under his commmand 136k

Now General Lee, the man he's always compared to;

Battles won 8
Forts captured 0
Cities captured 0
Armies captured 0
Number of combat deaths under his command 168k

No comparison.

Now let the flaming begin, this ought to be good.........